Author Topic: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game  (Read 250 times)

Offline Klassick

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Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« on: October 22, 2018, 03:23:05 PM »
So, here we are.

After much we've seen around here, we have on the horizon the "Spiritual Sucessor of Infinity Wars", a game named "Infinity Heroes", created by our beloved Lightmare Studios.

Well, let's take a quick look at the scenario:

Once upon a time, there was a game they made called Infinity Wars, that is by now almost dead (well, it is dead, who I want to lie to?) even after a partner studio came in for the "rescue" (Yodo1).

Infinity Wars was a "horror movie" of how to destroy a game that could have been fantastic.

Now, they make a "spiritual sucessor" out of it (guess the name here is quite accurate, cause in being IW dead, the only thing they could do is to try to take its "soul").

And I can see that the game has already some support:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elphie/infinity-heroes-competitive-card-game-for-mobile-p?ref=email&utm_source=EDM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IH_mediaoutreach&utm_term=IH_EDM&utm_content=promo_EDM

First, if I was a member of Yodo1, I would be mad as hell, but I will not talk about it now.

I just want to know what you guys (that are still around) thing about it.

Let's put our money into Infinity Heroes??? (guess I will make a pool soon too)



« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 03:24:56 PM by Klassick »

Offline ToxicShadow

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 01:20:55 PM »
I'll be honest. I don't like this one bit. I am not a big fan of the hearstone-y hero idea with hero abilities and whatnot. nor of the minimalist mobile phone style with 3 slots per zone. And in the knowledge how they handled this game...well, not sure if I even want to invest the time to check it out, even when it is f2p.

Offline Klassick

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 06:41:36 PM »
I think in a similar line, but I will wait others to manifest too.

I believe the word for me about Lightmare is "trauma". And I really don't know if I do start a 'campaign' against this new game, but, whatever.

The fact is: I did not find a better TCG than IW, even with all the problems the game have.

But... I do not really have any hope to see the game "shine" one day... maybe a very little one.


Offline Johnny_Retro

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 02:59:16 PM »
Well, i got this e-mail too. It reads like:

"Hey Guys! Do you remember when we f'ed you really hard in the ass some time ago?
"Did you liked it? Yes?
Well, hang on 'cause we got some interesting news for you!
We gonna start another money-burning and nerve-wrecking round of "how-to-completely-f'-up-a-game"!

*We're accepting Visa, Mastercard and Child Slaves under the age of 12.


This company crashed their previous game so hard and lied to every player and supporting person the entire time.
No but thanks no.
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Offline Wayfinder1026

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 01:24:11 PM »
it looks silly and boring. and i will never play it.
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Offline Wayfinder1026

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 01:27:11 PM »
I think in a similar line, but I will wait others to manifest too.

I believe the word for me about Lightmare is "trauma". And I really don't know if I do start a 'campaign' against this new game, but, whatever.

The fact is: I did not find a better TCG than IW, even with all the problems the game have.

But... I do not really have any hope to see the game "shine" one day... maybe a very little one.

it could if someone buys them out. at this point it might not be too expensive to purchase... buuuut, maybe it will be pretty expensive to fix it and revitalize it. but a lot of the ground work is there...
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Offline Pixelei

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 06:43:33 PM »
The post below this one contains what I'm about to send to every gaming controversy youtube channel I can find. I will update this post with the precise list once I have it myself. I'm also definitely open to suggestions.

What LM are doing is, in my book, beyond redemption, and people need to see this.

Please, as former IW players, take the time to read through the post and look over the screenshots as they're quite revealing.

Here are the outlets I've contacted thus far. I plan on doing more later. Like I said, if you have any suggestions, please, I'm open.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxXUQuvoiIAlpM2osoAitjQ
https://www.youtube.com/user/JimSterling
https://www.youtube.com/user/YongYea
https://www.youtube.com/user/boogie2988
https://www.youtube.com/user/LegacyKillaHD
www.ign.com

« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:13:52 PM by Pixelei »

Offline Pixelei

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 06:45:14 PM »
How it was.

Infinity Wars is a trading card game which was released in 2014, after a prolonged beta and a successful Kickstarter campaign in 2012 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elphie/infinity-wars-animated-trading-card-game

Back then, they had grand plans of bringing the game to Android, expanding the universe, evolving the story and lore, introducing new factions and new cards and generally giving the playerbase what they wanted if it, naturally, had merit. It had a lot going for it back then - they advertised themselves as an animated trading card game, which was true, as all the cards were animated gifs and, for the most part, looked really good. Some amateurish illustrations were made here and there, sure, but overall, it had a very distinct art style which complemented the overall tone and different factions very well.

Another selling point was that the game featured simultaneous turns, meaning that each player would plan out their turn separately and, once both players clicked on the “end turn” button, those actions would play out. After that, all those actions took place in a certain order depending on priority and various card effects. This made for some truly intense gameplay, where predicting your opponent’s next action was crucial to winning the game. Add to that the different factions, all with their separate themes and play styles, as well as the truly large number of complex card effects and interactions, and you’ve got what is probably one of the best and deepest card games ever made.

It also had a very approachable free to play model, wherein you earned in-game points which could be exchanged for card packs and vanity items, which never felt tedious or pointless as is the case with many such games. A beautiful aspect of the f2p model was also the fact that players were able to trade cards among themselves, resulting in new players getting into the game very easily as far as actual card count was concerned. All of this also contributed to a fantastic in-game community which, however small, was always ready to help new players with pointers, detailed instructions and free cards which would more often than not complete some new player’s lackluster deck, easing them into the game even more.

All in all, the concept was simply fantastic. Players organized tournaments among themselves, discussed various tactics on Lightmare Studios’ online forum and there was a sense of community I’ve rarely seen before and have not seen since. All of us did our part to help with the game’s marketing, to help new players get into the game, to make Infinity Wars something bigger than it was. All of us spent various sums (some to the extreme) of money on card packs, preorders, and vanity items. All to help Lightmare make the game as great as it deserved to be, and none of us did so grudgingly. We did it because we wanted to and because we truly cared.

Where it got stuck.

All the effort from the players in the world cannot save a game from selfish, incompetent developers, however. They had a great concept, which made for a great game. With time, however, it seemed as if they got in over their heads. At multiple points did the game almost die off before being revived again by a new expansion pack, a new tournament or something of the sort.

Every new expansion, though, brought in a new set of bugs and other issues the dev team had trouble keeping up with. A bug was fixed only for three new, sometimes even worse, bugs to be introduced. Any outcry from the playerbase was mostly stonewalled, with several community managers taking their turn in trying to stay in touch with us. It became apparent, however, that not even they always knew what they were talking about. So not only was the playerbase constantly being stonewalled by the devs, but it seemed as if their own community managers were going through the same ordeal.

Promise upon promise was made, but only when the devs themselves were ready to make them, and never when they were needed. These promises wound up being broken and our hopes collectively shattered time and time again. In time, the only burst of communication we’d get with the devs was when new cards were about to be released. So we could buy them, preorder them - so we could keep hoping.

Most of us stayed, however. Because we loved the game, we had hope, we wanted it to succeed. We kept asking the devs on their forums how we could help, but were met time and time again with silence and unnecessary, vapid updates. But most of us still stayed, we wanted Infinity Wars the way it could be, and we kept hoping and trying our best to keep things alive where the devs kept failing.

The game started to die off some time around the end of 2016, where any and all communication with the devs stopped - due to their own choice. We kept hoping, but soon realized it was in vain. Lightmare had abandoned the game, their players, their expensive card collections and just faded away. With our money in their pockets, naturally.

What’s new.

Fast forward a few years to a few months ago, and suddenly, the Infinity Wars facebook page is active again. I nearly puffy myself with joy, only to find out it’s a brand new IP called Infinity Heroes. It’s a simplified version of the previous game, designed with a mobile market cash grab in mind as most mobile games are. The backlash from players was, as expected, very loud. Some greeted the game with careful optimism, while some outright denounced the studio and new game, and personally, I’m not sure which camp is in the right here.

Bastardizing a beloved IP is nothing new in the gaming industry, especially when it’s a very small IP with not much value anymore apart from sentimental. These things happen and the IW community was and is mature enough to understand this. What is unforgivable, however, is the devs’ attitude and practices this time around, which is why I’m writing this in such detail.

They opened a new kickstarter campaign: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elphie/infinity-heroes-competitive-card-game-for-mobile-p

It was successful again, in spite of all the backlash and negativity that permeated their Facebook page. They raised their asking amount and almost immediately, without skipping a beat, started an Indiegogo campaign, suddenly calling this “phase 2”. Naturally, with no prior announcement, all in a very transparent attempt to get as much funding as possible.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/infinity-heroes--2?fbclid=IwAR0SNdPvf1b_O3fNmI8k3s3NREkKESknXPWcn-o-JZhiuDXep18_e8Fpw_c#/
If you look at the attached screenshots (IHcomments), you’ll see the community’s reaction in short. Go over to their facebook page for more of this - there’s a lot more. https://www.facebook.com/infinitywarsgame/

Again, the devs are completely silent (aside from a singular reply) and are going back to their old practices reminiscent of, well, dictators in ivory towers who only address their populace when they feel comfortable doing so, all the while staying deaf and mute to the outrcy. In the meantime, their marketing is based on uplifting, optimistic propaganda videos which make them seem enthusiastic, fresh, eager. Competent. Approachable. While making money in the gaming industry is, and should be, a given, their smugness in combination with their previous behaviour just makes all of this seem slimy at best, and deplorable at worst.

Their silence also extends to their youtube channel and the comments on their videos, mind you. https://www.youtube.com/user/LightmareStudiosAus/featured where they have even gone on to delete a video that had, apparently, just too many negative comments for their liking.

The cherry on top of the puffy cake.

They’re buying facebook likes. Not sure about other platform, but facebook is definitely a culprit. Just look at the attached screenshots (IHlikes). The Indiegogo announcement has 3.9k reactions and only 10 comments. This is typically a sure sign of buying said reactions. For comparison, look at the attached screenshot from a Fallout 76 announcement, which boasts 4k reactions and 1.6k comments, which is a normal ratio between the two.

As additional proof, though I’m unsure as to how admissible it is, look at just some of the names of the people reacting to the post (IHlikes). They’re either names originating from countries infamous for having “like farms” or are simply made up.

In conclusion.

While ragging on small indie devs can seem like a scummy move when EA is a thing that exists, being said small indie dev cannot excuse scummy, shady practices. Their track record up until now has been marred at best, and behaving the way they are is only making things worse.

Moreover, seeing as how Lightmare are indeed a small, indie dev studio, the word of this is not likely to get out. Which is why you’re reading this right now.

The reason I am writing this is also that I don’t want to see more people waste their time and money with money-hungry incompetent game developers who treat their playerbase like a herd of mindless sheep and have been doing so for years. I refuse to sit by and watch while they pull the wool over the eyes of a new generation of suckers, only to abandon the project once they realize they’re not up to it, and flee with all the money they got, meanwhile considering their new crowdfunding campaign.

I am also writing this because I feel hurt, as silly as that may sound. I don’t want Lightmare to keep doing this and I don’t want others to feel like this.


P.S. I have also posted this on the Lightmare forums, mostly out of curiosity on whether my post will be deleted or simply ignored.


-Pixelei, former Infinity Wars community player and community member.

The link to the album containing the screenshots is here: https://imgur.com/a/tLpmd1R

Offline Kevkas

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2018, 04:51:41 AM »
Couldn't agree more Pixelei, in case your post is deleted, I took the liberty of copy-pasting it to my pastebin account, here's the link in case you or someone else needs it: https://pastebin.com/X8EnHcAy

I also updated my old Steam review changing it to negative, and posting your explanation since I pretty much think and feel the same.

Offline Pixelei

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2018, 06:11:09 AM »
By all means, spread the word as much as you can. It's a shame all the outlets I've contacted seem to be ignoring this (aside from LegacyKillaHD, whose mods at least commented on how long this would take to read).

Since my last post, I've also reached out to ZiggyD, who actually covered IW a while back. Again, no reply as of yet. Maybe later, I guess.

I never even thought of doing a steam review, thanks for the tip.

Offline IguanaMan

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 09:32:19 PM »
it's a shame all the outlets I've contacted seem to be ignoring this (aside from LegacyKillaHD, whose mods at least commented on how long this would take to read).

You've done some great investigative work and buried it in a load of text. You need to explain it using about 1/3 to 1/4 of the amount you wrote.
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Offline Candit

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2018, 11:28:35 PM »
I was hoping even a speck of the game would remain so I'll give it a shot but not very optimistic.

I will admit I like having more strict limitations on zones since this game suffered of creature spam and solo players who dragged each game to 20 minutes.

Does anyone know if the development team has changed or is it still the same guys?
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Offline NTL

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2018, 12:35:45 AM »
Does anyone know if the development team has changed or is it still the same guys?
Pawns are new, king remained the same - Elphie Coyle.
Only 3 guys work on it, primal problem with IW - it was underinvested, and ultimately hesistation of spedning more resources on it killed this game.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Offline Klassick

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 09:02:47 PM »

Well, I could not agree more too, and, I would not be able to explain everything as you did.

Really thanks, Pixelei.

I'll try to spread the word too.

Fantastic job!

Well, good to know that I am not the only one seeing this new project as "more of the same".

This too, is the naked truth:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
- NTL

How it was.

Infinity Wars is a trading card game which was released in 2014, after a prolonged beta and a successful Kickstarter campaign in 2012 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elphie/infinity-wars-animated-trading-card-game

Back then, they had grand plans of bringing the game to Android, expanding the universe, evolving the story and lore, introducing new factions and new cards and generally giving the playerbase what they wanted if it, naturally, had merit. It had a lot going for it back then - they advertised themselves as an animated trading card game, which was true, as all the cards were animated gifs and, for the most part, looked really good. Some amateurish illustrations were made here and there, sure, but overall, it had a very distinct art style which complemented the overall tone and different factions very well.

Another selling point was that the game featured simultaneous turns, meaning that each player would plan out their turn separately and, once both players clicked on the “end turn” button, those actions would play out. After that, all those actions took place in a certain order depending on priority and various card effects. This made for some truly intense gameplay, where predicting your opponent’s next action was crucial to winning the game. Add to that the different factions, all with their separate themes and play styles, as well as the truly large number of complex card effects and interactions, and you’ve got what is probably one of the best and deepest card games ever made.

It also had a very approachable free to play model, wherein you earned in-game points which could be exchanged for card packs and vanity items, which never felt tedious or pointless as is the case with many such games. A beautiful aspect of the f2p model was also the fact that players were able to trade cards among themselves, resulting in new players getting into the game very easily as far as actual card count was concerned. All of this also contributed to a fantastic in-game community which, however small, was always ready to help new players with pointers, detailed instructions and free cards which would more often than not complete some new player’s lackluster deck, easing them into the game even more.

All in all, the concept was simply fantastic. Players organized tournaments among themselves, discussed various tactics on Lightmare Studios’ online forum and there was a sense of community I’ve rarely seen before and have not seen since. All of us did our part to help with the game’s marketing, to help new players get into the game, to make Infinity Wars something bigger than it was. All of us spent various sums (some to the extreme) of money on card packs, preorders, and vanity items. All to help Lightmare make the game as great as it deserved to be, and none of us did so grudgingly. We did it because we wanted to and because we truly cared.

Where it got stuck.

All the effort from the players in the world cannot save a game from selfish, incompetent developers, however. They had a great concept, which made for a great game. With time, however, it seemed as if they got in over their heads. At multiple points did the game almost die off before being revived again by a new expansion pack, a new tournament or something of the sort.

Every new expansion, though, brought in a new set of bugs and other issues the dev team had trouble keeping up with. A bug was fixed only for three new, sometimes even worse, bugs to be introduced. Any outcry from the playerbase was mostly stonewalled, with several community managers taking their turn in trying to stay in touch with us. It became apparent, however, that not even they always knew what they were talking about. So not only was the playerbase constantly being stonewalled by the devs, but it seemed as if their own community managers were going through the same ordeal.

Promise upon promise was made, but only when the devs themselves were ready to make them, and never when they were needed. These promises wound up being broken and our hopes collectively shattered time and time again. In time, the only burst of communication we’d get with the devs was when new cards were about to be released. So we could buy them, preorder them - so we could keep hoping.

Most of us stayed, however. Because we loved the game, we had hope, we wanted it to succeed. We kept asking the devs on their forums how we could help, but were met time and time again with silence and unnecessary, vapid updates. But most of us still stayed, we wanted Infinity Wars the way it could be, and we kept hoping and trying our best to keep things alive where the devs kept failing.

The game started to die off some time around the end of 2016, where any and all communication with the devs stopped - due to their own choice. We kept hoping, but soon realized it was in vain. Lightmare had abandoned the game, their players, their expensive card collections and just faded away. With our money in their pockets, naturally.

What’s new.

Fast forward a few years to a few months ago, and suddenly, the Infinity Wars facebook page is active again. I nearly puffy myself with joy, only to find out it’s a brand new IP called Infinity Heroes. It’s a simplified version of the previous game, designed with a mobile market cash grab in mind as most mobile games are. The backlash from players was, as expected, very loud. Some greeted the game with careful optimism, while some outright denounced the studio and new game, and personally, I’m not sure which camp is in the right here.

Bastardizing a beloved IP is nothing new in the gaming industry, especially when it’s a very small IP with not much value anymore apart from sentimental. These things happen and the IW community was and is mature enough to understand this. What is unforgivable, however, is the devs’ attitude and practices this time around, which is why I’m writing this in such detail.

They opened a new kickstarter campaign: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elphie/infinity-heroes-competitive-card-game-for-mobile-p

It was successful again, in spite of all the backlash and negativity that permeated their Facebook page. They raised their asking amount and almost immediately, without skipping a beat, started an Indiegogo campaign, suddenly calling this “phase 2”. Naturally, with no prior announcement, all in a very transparent attempt to get as much funding as possible.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/infinity-heroes--2?fbclid=IwAR0SNdPvf1b_O3fNmI8k3s3NREkKESknXPWcn-o-JZhiuDXep18_e8Fpw_c#/
If you look at the attached screenshots (IHcomments), you’ll see the community’s reaction in short. Go over to their facebook page for more of this - there’s a lot more. https://www.facebook.com/infinitywarsgame/

Again, the devs are completely silent (aside from a singular reply) and are going back to their old practices reminiscent of, well, dictators in ivory towers who only address their populace when they feel comfortable doing so, all the while staying deaf and mute to the outrcy. In the meantime, their marketing is based on uplifting, optimistic propaganda videos which make them seem enthusiastic, fresh, eager. Competent. Approachable. While making money in the gaming industry is, and should be, a given, their smugness in combination with their previous behaviour just makes all of this seem slimy at best, and deplorable at worst.

Their silence also extends to their youtube channel and the comments on their videos, mind you. https://www.youtube.com/user/LightmareStudiosAus/featured where they have even gone on to delete a video that had, apparently, just too many negative comments for their liking.

The cherry on top of the puffy cake.

They’re buying facebook likes. Not sure about other platform, but facebook is definitely a culprit. Just look at the attached screenshots (IHlikes). The Indiegogo announcement has 3.9k reactions and only 10 comments. This is typically a sure sign of buying said reactions. For comparison, look at the attached screenshot from a Fallout 76 announcement, which boasts 4k reactions and 1.6k comments, which is a normal ratio between the two.

As additional proof, though I’m unsure as to how admissible it is, look at just some of the names of the people reacting to the post (IHlikes). They’re either names originating from countries infamous for having “like farms” or are simply made up.

In conclusion.

While ragging on small indie devs can seem like a scummy move when EA is a thing that exists, being said small indie dev cannot excuse scummy, shady practices. Their track record up until now has been marred at best, and behaving the way they are is only making things worse.

Moreover, seeing as how Lightmare are indeed a small, indie dev studio, the word of this is not likely to get out. Which is why you’re reading this right now.

The reason I am writing this is also that I don’t want to see more people waste their time and money with money-hungry incompetent game developers who treat their playerbase like a herd of mindless sheep and have been doing so for years. I refuse to sit by and watch while they pull the wool over the eyes of a new generation of suckers, only to abandon the project once they realize they’re not up to it, and flee with all the money they got, meanwhile considering their new crowdfunding campaign.

I am also writing this because I feel hurt, as silly as that may sound. I don’t want Lightmare to keep doing this and I don’t want others to feel like this.


P.S. I have also posted this on the Lightmare forums, mostly out of curiosity on whether my post will be deleted or simply ignored.


-Pixelei, former Infinity Wars community player and community member.

The link to the album containing the screenshots is here: https://imgur.com/a/tLpmd1R

Offline Hiding

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Re: Infinity Heroes - Lightmare Studios New Game
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 02:27:26 AM »
If they transfer our IW cards over ill check it out, otherwise probably not