Author Topic: Legend Balance Changes  (Read 2446 times)

Offline PopeShine

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2017, 03:16:38 PM »

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I would agree if such changes affected cards of lesser rarity, but for legendaries those are unimaginative at best. I can understand lack of creativity, but what with 'no for reshape the meta' thing? Isn't purpose of highest rarity cards are to be strong thus desired? Should we not feel disappointed seeing Hinekri's cost decreased by 1 after so long time of being completely useless for example? Do reshaping the meta is not something that should happen and keep (card) games alive?
Also I dislike the fact that another factionless legendary is made so useful.

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If the point of the card changes was to make them more viable, I think the developers should have gone with a more in-depth approach. Maybe even a rework.
Making them more viable means getting them to contend with the current meta. If the purpose of the buffs/nerfs was not that, then I may need to be enlightened for whatever the reason was.

Rarity and power level don't always have to be in lockstep. If you look at any TCG you'll find the the majority of cards printed at the highest rarity often don't see competitive play. Only a handful from any given set make it to competitive decks. Often this is done intentionally. Not every card in a TCG is designed to be competitive. A lot of cards are designed top-down and are made to fulfill the need of flavor or set theme. Bottom-up cards are typically designed to support gameplay and these cards are usually made at lower rarities. It can be a dangerous practice to put the best or most powerful gameplay cards at the highest rarity. You'd end up creating a game where every card in a deck would need to be legendary.

The IW community's whipping boy of a bad legendary is Gao Han, Champion of Warding. Its pretty obvious to see that this is a top-down design and meant to be a flavor card. It's original stats, restrictive casting cost and narrow, "flavorful" ability were evidence of that. The stats buff it recently got is simply a nod to the fact that based on raw stats it was underpowered compared to other rares and uncommons in the game. It's simply not the best example of a legendary that's been done an injustice. It was never meant to be powerful or even competitive.

I also think the community has been remiss in acknowledging how many legendaries routinely see play in the ranked meta: Agent Coyle Primal Hunter, Martyr of Life, Defiant Hermit, Agent Coyle Soulseller, Klore the Rapier Centurion, Agent Coyle Immovable, Sol Champion of Vengeance and Martyr Golem. About 29% of printed legendaries are seeing play (8 out of 28). That number only gets better if you include tech choices. And a couple more might see play since the buffs. That's pretty much in line (if not better) with what every other TCG does with their highest rarity cards.

Bear in mind that another round of balance changes is in the works. The legendaries have gotten their buffs boosting their power levels/playability and in the next round OP cards should be getting nerfed. Perhaps this combination of buffs and nerfs will reshape the meta and make it more palatable.

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Does the management of this game even care anymore?
It's like this rebalancing was merely done to show people active on the forums "Nope, we're not dead yet. We're still alive. So let's entertain you guys with some changes you might not even care about".

I don't understand where all this saltiness is coming from. Not to pick on this poster but this is something that's indicative of the community as a whole.

I'm new and wasn't around for the "shadiness" of the early years with the original dev team and yada yada yada. The game has balance issues and bugs and that's very frustrating, but please remember it's an indie title. A certain lack of polish is to be expected. For the past few weeks I've seen honest effort being put into making the improvements everyone wants. It's slow going, but it's actually progressing. The constant moaning about the game and developers has been a bit too much for me. It's the only thing the community cares to talk about. I suppose every game suffers this as well, but it's surprising that a game this small with a loyal fan base would receive such grief on a daily basis. Many times it seems the community enjoys whining about the developers, the game and each other more than playing it and that's just pretty distasteful.

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That pharmaceutical precision is painfully obvious, though factionless Marina is blessed with powerful effect, can someone kind from balance team explain it to me?

This worries me a bit too. Powerful factionless cards with unique abilities seems ripe for abuse. Marina may or may not be a problem (too early to tell) but this kind of design philosophy makes me nervous for future cards.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 05:37:26 PM by PopeShine »

Offline Prince of Lies

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2017, 04:44:43 PM »
That's fine if you long-time players want to cheese and faceroll each other with the same overused top 5 decks.
Honestly, I'm even sick of seeing Tinker Acolyte, Taiga Token and Hermit decks in Normals. Sometimes, I do well. Sometimes, I don't. And this is from someone who quit the game after 3 months of playing it and just came back last December. So my card pool, although obviously quite lacking, is better than most new players and this is without tossing a single cent on the game.
And honestly I don't think many new players will invest for a DLC without knowing how long they will be playing this game and/or how many friends they will make who can buy their stuff when they quit.

All I'm saying is if you guys don't mind losing new players playing Normals against your well-developed decks, then by all means turn a blind eye to the odd rebalancing.
Newer players will only get frustrated trying to gain popular good cards from the packs they buy using hard-earned IP. Even then PVP wins will be hard to gain by, thereby also limiting the IP they earn from the daily.
If you think losing most PVP battles is no big deal to a newbie, then maybe it would when you consider they start acquiring cards at the pace of 20 battles per pack.
Oh and not all pre-made decks are newb-friendly. Some are even way too predictable.

I'm not saying they shouldn't give those changes to Gao Han Ascended and Hinkeri. But if their purpose is not to buff them to compare with other legendaries, then why even bother?

I mean, Taiga gives me a bigger problem than most of the Champions (minus a well-guarded Raziel and Tempus) in a pure Overseers deck. Maybe she needs to be restricted to a 2-purity Genesis deck.'

I play the game for fun, often looking for new things that could potentially work together.
And I get the impression that a lot of you guys only play for the ranks/competitively.
No wonder much of the older players are quitting.
The game is getting boring. Plus/minus, stressful with the bugged disconnects and unrecorded victories.
No one wants to innovate new decks with a different set of cards.
I see an occasional Uncontrolled Rift deck with Acolytes in Normals. but that's just in Normals.
I'm sure Ranked would make me throw up after 4 days of matches.

I'm not being salty.
I'm being realistic.
When the game finally reaches a point that everyone has the same deck in Ranked, I wouldn't be surprised to know the playerbase has reached less than 50.
Anyway, that's all my input for now.
False positivity is just as bad as persistent negativity.

Offline Heyheuhei

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2017, 05:01:46 PM »
Well, good or even average players dont play good decks in normal. Its so boring :P

Offline Klassick

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2017, 08:38:21 PM »
Taking in consideration the main objective of this changes, they are welcome.

Marina is the only problem here... guess a rebalance at this card will come soon, for sure.
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Offline Kevkas

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2017, 02:15:43 AM »
Two thoughts regarding Tygris:

1st. His stats still leave him very vulnerable, especially against Verore, and even Overseers (one Banish away from being killed AND removed from the game). I'd suggest increase his stats, or give him some protection.

2nd. Before you were able to spam 2/2 cheap artificials, which came in handy lots of times. Now we are forced to 8/8 artificials, which also leaves Tygris with a dead 2nd turn, it can't even create an artificial on the 2nd turn. Why have we lost his versatility? At the very least allow him to create a 4/4 or 5/5 on the 2nd turn, no harm in that, and brings him into play earlier, it's difficult enough to get him going and now waiting for 3rd turn makes things worse.

Offline artistx

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2017, 06:18:01 AM »
Why was Liand not revamped? I've only seen him played once in the last year and a half..

Offline ES [BoD]

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2017, 10:47:55 AM »
Taking in consideration the main objective of this changes, they are welcome.

Marina is the only problem here... guess a rebalance at this card will come soon, for sure.

Yea, Marina's untouchable effect should have disappeared after she's killed, i understand that it's not the case atm and she will be fixed soon.

Perhaps that caused a little bit of confusion and I apologize for it.
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Offline marvelouschester

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2017, 03:10:59 PM »

Yea, Marina's untouchable effect should have disappeared after she's killed, i understand that it's not the case atm and she will be fixed soon..
the character also retains it after marina is humbled, no clue if the character is reset after that yet though
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Offline SwatAK

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2017, 03:54:33 PM »
You're telling me that they buffed useless legendaries?! Guess ive been gone for too long
Holy crap that marina is op stuff
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Offline Kevkas

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2017, 01:03:15 AM »
Why was Liand not revamped? I've only seen him played once in the last year and a half..

+1

Offline Hiding

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2017, 01:40:23 AM »
Why was Liand not revamped? I've only seen him played once in the last year and a half..

+1

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« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 05:14:39 AM by Hiding »

Offline tmoua805

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2017, 01:45:30 AM »
I think the changes to these cards are solid. I don't understand why people wanted to make the changes on these cards more "creative." People need to stop complaining about such dumb things. Infinity Wars Reborn is actually making progress. Progress=good. Fixed a bunch of bugs and are willing to go back and balance the whole entire collection of cards. What more do you guys want out of them? Yeah they have had their ups and downs but there is slow but steady progress which is a good thing. Of course nothing is perfect so don't get your expectations up.

I'm happy cuz my Xi Martyr is now viable. I have been winning most of my normal games with two of her in my deck. Looking forward to more of the changes coming up!

Offline Candit

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2017, 06:34:39 AM »
So the untouchable effect is not a nerf to prevent splat combos?
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Offline KingMickey

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2017, 06:21:07 PM »
Agent Coyle Ascended seems to have gotten the short end of the stick. Imho, if you look it from lore perspective, Overseers control great power. If AC is already powerful, Ascending should give him an ever bigger boost. This doesn't reflect neither in his stats nor in having a really powerful ability- it looks nice but with such low stats, he can't put up much of a fight- he needs stat boosting by other effects or abilities.

Offline drewmb10

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Re: Legend Balance Changes
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2017, 08:04:46 PM »
Agent Coyle Ascended seems to have gotten the short end of the stick. Imho, if you look it from lore perspective, Overseers control great power. If AC is already powerful, Ascending should give him an ever bigger boost. This doesn't reflect neither in his stats nor in having a really powerful ability- it looks nice but with such low stats, he can't put up much of a fight- he needs stat boosting by other effects or abilities.

AC Ascended is definitely one of the better legendaries to come from this patch. He's very playable now, as his ability can deal with so many threats.