Author Topic: Draft Balance Pass  (Read 3432 times)

Offline OneTwo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2016, 02:04:48 PM »
I'm currently waiting on confirmation for: whether Radariah was decided to be banned fully, or just from Command picks. Probably the former, just writing this here to be communicative.

Even if Radariah is now banned just for Command picks, it would end in beeing fully banned.
She was already banned from normal picks, as you announced in your 1st or 2nd "Cultivation Draft" thread.

Maybe you just want to host a complete overview for all changes you do/did, and not spreading all informations over various threads. It cant hurt the game, if there is 1 reliable source of all disabled commander/deck picks.

Offline ORISOLVE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • In the service of The Holy Roman Empire since 2016
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2016, 02:51:49 PM »
+1

I would like an organized Official Cultivated Draft Ban List before the next patch. Get to work Drew.  ;D
Where there's a will, there's a way.


Offline GeistesblitZ

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2016, 04:14:33 PM »
I edited my post and clarified my reasoning. I approve of all the top changes, but it's the combination of the other changes that irks me.

Too late, I petition for you to have the nickname of Orisalt. <_<

+1

Offline ORISOLVE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • In the service of The Holy Roman Empire since 2016
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2016, 05:21:26 PM »
I am a firm believer in balance, and if you guys don't balance the game people will cry about something else in the game eventually. Also keep in mind that Rarity changes affect trade value, so there's that. :-\
Where there's a will, there's a way.


Offline Chalkbot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2016, 07:09:39 PM »
Oh great. More card bans. This is ridiculous. The way to "balance" is not to ban until everyone has the same deck.

Offline ES [BoD]

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Flame Dawn Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2016, 07:24:41 PM »
Oh great. More card bans. This is ridiculous. The way to "balance" is not to ban until everyone has the same deck.
Do you honestly want to keep drawing "Supress"?

That is the best way to balance draft until those outdated cards will be reworked and playable again.
Hail Aberion! Hail the Dawn!

Offline Chalkbot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2016, 07:54:39 PM »
Oh great. More card bans. This is ridiculous. The way to "balance" is not to ban until everyone has the same deck.
Do you honestly want to keep drawing "Supress"?

That is the best way to balance draft until those outdated cards will be reworked and playable again.

Yeah, and Aleta, Immortal Traveler/Sufferer/Tinkerer, Zusa, and Parasite etc. are too good, While it's fine to have cards like Kraarck and Xi, and Avatars in the format?

It's stupid to be banning cards for being too good while simultaneously bringing in and increasing the frequency of equally and more powerful cards.

"Hey guys, no more Immortal traveler, okay? Players can't deal with the deluge of 1 creature a turn. Also, everyone gets a Calamity now."




Offline ES [BoD]

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Flame Dawn Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2016, 08:22:51 PM »
Oh great. More card bans. This is ridiculous. The way to "balance" is not to ban until everyone has the same deck.
Do you honestly want to keep drawing "Supress"?

That is the best way to balance draft until those outdated cards will be reworked and playable again.

Yeah, and Aleta, Immortal Traveler/Sufferer/Tinkerer, Zusa, and Parasite etc. are too good, While it's fine to have cards like Kraarck and Xi, and Avatars in the format?

It's stupid to be banning cards for being too good while simultaneously bringing in and increasing the frequency of equally and more powerful cards.

"Hey guys, no more Immortal traveler, okay? Players can't deal with the deluge of 1 creature a turn. Also, everyone gets a Calamity now."

First of all, Aleta Tinkerer will be reinstated in draft, idk why that isn't in the notes.

zuza was too strong for draft, especially in command that's why they decided to ban her, now that we have all these epics and legends running around, unbanning her is something worth to consider.

Immortal Traveler is just bad in command, I don't wanna see her as a command pick, she's too weak for me to even consider sacrificing a purity for her and i know that many vets feel the same.

I don't know the plans for aleta sufferer tbh Aleta Sufferer i don't mind unbanning her in the current meta.
Hail Aberion! Hail the Dawn!

Offline Chalkbot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2016, 08:43:51 PM »
First of all, Aleta Tinkerer will be reinstated in draft, idk why that isn't in the notes.

zuza was too strong for draft, especially in command that's why they decided to ban her, now that we have all these epics and legends running around, unbanning her is something worth to consider.

Immortal Traveler is just bad in command, I don't wanna see her as a command pick, she's too weak for me to even consider sacrificing a purity for her and i know that many vets feel the same.

I don't know the plans for aleta sufferer tbh Aleta Sufferer i don't mind unbanning her in the current meta.

If tinkerer is coming back, that's great, and I hope that means all the other "too good" cards are coming back.

You really think Zusa was too strong? What about now, still too strong? Spend 2 turns and 7 resources to steal a character that is hopefully on the battlefield and hopefully my Zusa doesn't die? Give up a purity for this? I never understood why people were so afraid of this card. Same with Evolving Parasite. I think they are just afraid of having to think.

Immortal traveler is not banned in command, only in deck. Was that card warping the meta? Many times when I played it, people would remark that they didn't know it could make Death worshipers... which signals to me that they don't pick it and don't play against it.

Was Wealthy Noble too good in command? I think I've seen him all of 2 times, and I wasn't exactly quaking in my boots.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter which card that was banned for being too good you're talking about, there is a better card that is not banned. Let's go ahead and make all the options available please and stop drafting the same boring ass decks.


Offline ES [BoD]

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Flame Dawn Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2016, 08:54:10 PM »
First of all, Aleta Tinkerer will be reinstated in draft, idk why that isn't in the notes.

zuza was too strong for draft, especially in command that's why they decided to ban her, now that we have all these epics and legends running around, unbanning her is something worth to consider.

Immortal Traveler is just bad in command, I don't wanna see her as a command pick, she's too weak for me to even consider sacrificing a purity for her and i know that many vets feel the same.

I don't know the plans for aleta sufferer tbh Aleta Sufferer i don't mind unbanning her in the current meta.

If tinkerer is coming back, that's great, and I hope that means all the other "too good" cards are coming back.

You really think Zusa was too strong? What about now, still too strong? Spend 2 turns and 7 resources to steal a character that is hopefully on the battlefield and hopefully my Zusa doesn't die? Give up a purity for this? I never understood why people were so afraid of this card. Same with Evolving Parasite. I think they are just afraid of having to think.

Immortal traveler is not banned in command, only in deck. Was that card warping the meta? Many times when I played it, people would remark that they didn't know it could make Death worshipers... which signals to me that they don't pick it and don't play against it.

Was Wealthy Noble too good in command? I think I've seen him all of 2 times, and I wasn't exactly quaking in my boots.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter which card that was banned for being too good you're talking about, there is a better card that is not banned. Let's go ahead and make all the options available please and stop drafting the same boring ass decks.

Wealthy noble was banned from command for the same reason radariah and Traveler were banned, for being too weak for taking an entire purity.

You are looking at it all wrong:

Im not trying to ban good cards, idk what gave you that idea, maybe you got that from the last cultivation which i had nothing to do with.

In any case, my as i said above, i banned some cards that were too weak/unplayable/outdated cards in order to clear the way for better cards, until those cards will be reworked and reinstated in draft when they are playable again.

As for zuza, you dont even have to use that card in order to win, just her presence is enough to slow your opponent most of the time.
But yea, in the current meta i dont really care if she will be un-banned, just not in command.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 08:55:43 PM by ES [BoD] »
Hail Aberion! Hail the Dawn!

Offline ORISOLVE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1480
  • In the service of The Holy Roman Empire since 2016
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2016, 09:19:54 PM »
I knew you had something to do with this ES. As a detective, I suspected as much. I think you went overboard with some of the changes such as Heaven's Assistance and Lingbao's Will. I may have suggested these before but it was an either or change. With all the other changes, Lingbao's Will will destroy all Sleepers and Flame Dawn decks. If Tinkerer is reinstated, I assume that will be the meta in Draft. There would be nothing left to fight against Genesis Tinkerer decks, because it seems like Verore didn't even get any changes. As much as I hate the Sleepers meta, I hated the Aleta Tinkerer meta more.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 09:24:24 PM by ORISOLVE »
Where there's a will, there's a way.


Offline Chalkbot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2016, 09:39:47 PM »

Wealthy noble was banned from command for the same reason radariah and Traveler were banned, for being too weak for taking an entire purity.

And this was causing a lot of balance issues? Did someone manage to pinpoint the moment their deck became unplayable to that commander pick that included Wealthy Noble as a choice? Maybe instead of banning Wealthy Noble, we should ban whatever the other 3 cards were? Or were they ALL Wealthy Noble? Maybe we should fix that, instead?

You are looking at it all wrong:

Im not trying to ban good cards, idk what gave you that idea, maybe you got that from the last cultivation which i had nothing to do with.

I didn't know you had anything to do with it, so I certainly didn't have that idea. As far as why I think cards are being removed for being too good? Because I've never heard anyone complain about how bad Hekeem or Parasite are, I have to assume they are banned for being good?

If you DO have some influence over bannings, future or otherwise, do you have the same influence over un-bannings? 'Cause 99% of the cards that are banned for being too good are not too good. Part of the discussion on bringing balance should be about re-introducing tools to deal with the other cards that may be causing problems for some players.

In any case, my as i said above, i banned some cards that were too weak/unplayable/outdated cards in order to clear the way for better cards, until those cards will be reworked and reinstated in draft when they are playable again.

The history of cards being reinstated after they are playable is not good. Banned cards tend to be forgotten and banned forever. In addition to that, cards that fit into this category also have an overlap with cards I enjoy playing. Find your Way is banned now? I like this card. I had it in my deck when I was reading that it was going to be banned, a deck that I was having success with, but more importantly fun. Do we really need to get rid of every card that isn't always playable?


As for zuza, you dont even have to use that card in order to win, just her presence is enough to slow your opponent most of the time.
But yea, in the current meta i dont really care if she will be un-banned, just not in command.

Is it the card's fault that the opponent plays badly? I mean, noobs tell me that all the time, but I don't usually hear that from veterans. Here, I'll let everyone know how to beat a Zusa in Command; Play as if it wasn't there at all. OMG, you won? Amazing. Un-banned.


Sorry for being a smart ass.*


*sorta

Offline Weak_Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • In Vino Veritas
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2016, 09:48:20 PM »
These are good changes, they dont really effect me personally but I like the message behind the changes. Yodo/LM isnt afraid to get its hands dirty.

That being said Orisolve or someone, can you let me know the importance of a card going from uncommon to common? Is that a pauper deck thing or do new players have a hard time getting their hands on uncommon... what is the significance of this change?

More 1P  cards need to be 2P, I did a whole thread on this!

Offline Teremus

  • Really Cool Moose
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5545
  • Hide your cheese.
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2016, 09:53:59 PM »
These are good changes, they dont really effect me personally but I like the message behind the changes. Yodo/LM isnt afraid to get its hands dirty.

That being said Orisolve or someone, can you let me know the importance of a card going from uncommon to common? Is that a pauper deck thing or do new players have a hard time getting their hands on uncommon... what is the significance of this change?

More 1P  cards need to be 2P, I did a whole thread on this!

Primarily speaking you're permitting a card to be two things with that change:

1] Opened/Pulled more often from Packs due to 3-4/5 taking that rarity slot in most cases as opposed to only the 1 slot then needing to offer that card.

2] Far more offers during the drafting process by the same logic as pack pulls. Larger quantities = better chances of seeing that card.

All in all what does it change? Saturation is all it comes out to. Whether that's good or not is up to people who still play. Could affect trades, could be a good thing. Who knows. It won't affect Pauper because that's still Common/Uncommon.
No seriously, I really like cheese.

Quote from: Poga
I make this game, James.

Offline Pelagoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Sock Puppet
    • View Profile
Re: Draft Balance Pass
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2016, 06:20:53 AM »
OMG! I just noticed that Aleta, Immortal Caretaker is still available to command picks. Someone save me from this madness. I am unsure which Card I wanted to have removed more: Caretaker or Hehkeem. While I agree with the rest, I simply can't rest my Terms with Caretaker still being in the game.

htzhhDFügrtp.f
fdgfbbfgngfnghsue
ghztjfghjzjtwgewfewfewffswdf
efsgrsegegregef

I dunno if bringin back Tinkerer will make Caretaker less toxic. Actually I dunno if any of those 2 toxic aletas should be allowed to command. FML