Author Topic: Challenges would save this game2  (Read 3776 times)

Offline Axeecutioner

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Challenges would save this game2
« on: May 17, 2016, 01:02:53 PM »
The challenges that the devs are offering for this game will not work; it's garbage. This is how it needs to roll out to save this game...

After infinite matches, there should be random challenges given to players for their next constructed infinite match. These challenges can be specific to one faction or global. For instance, one challenge can be to win the game with Aberion, the Final Hammer or it can be to win the game without letting the opponent attack your fortress. Or, it can be even more specific like have control of 10 Starfleet Ensigns before the match is over. To be clear, these challenges should be random and specific to every player. For instance, the higher level you are, the larger the pool of random challenges you should have and the more difficult. Each challenge should give random rewards specific to the difficulty of the challenge the player selected.

So, if there were 3 difficulties in regards to challenges, there should be 3 tiers of loot. The first tier may be to give additional looks to the cards you have in play for the next 3 games, gain a sum of extra ip for your next win, or collect a token so that you can eventually buy some prize in the store after saving so many, like avatars, battlegrounds, and that sort of thing. Each tier should have random loot. And the higher the chance of something good to drop, there should also be a good chance of receiving lower tiered loot--this will deter cheating (trading wins).

To explain further; after level 4, players would see the first tier of challenges; after level 10,  players would see the next; and then after level 15, players would see the last tier. Then after each tier has been unlocked, more random challenges can be added that would be specific to each tier.

For clarification and to address some concerns people have had...

-challenges are totally optional
-each tier would have common, epic, and legendary challenges (or something like this)
-a player at level 15 or above would have 3 random challenges to choose from after every match, with one from each tier (tier 1-easy, tier 2-medium, tier 3-hard),
-challenges would be specific or global or general (specific=must have certain card(s);global=theoretically any faction can accomplish)
-each tier would have a specific legendary challenge (or 2)
-for many challenges that asks you to have certain, specific legendary cards, it might make available that card in your inventory just so you can complete the challenge and only for a short period of time
-most challenges will expire, meaning you will only have a certain amount of time or games to accomplish it or you fail, while others you can continue on indefinitely until you accomplish it or give up if you want.
-challenges can be sold as cards (or sets of cards)
-there would be 10-20 basic challenges inherent to the pool of challenges; however, you should be able to add any 10-20 challenges to that pool of challenges you want and change it when you want, with having a minimum quota of challenges for the pool that grows at each level.

This will accomplish many things:

1. Increase motivation and excitement to play the game--Players would be excited to make the next level to start seeing the next pool of challenges and the loot that may go with them. This is an especially good thing for people who have been in the game a while and no longer get free packs for each level. They will, instead, look forward to harder challenges--also, these challenges should be relatively easy to implement once the system is in place, so you can add more challenges between releases; thus,

2. Would keep players engaged between releases.

3. Increases balance between players and you can finally pair players randomly for games instead of having this rigged bs (there are so many things wrong with having a rigged matching system it's unreal)--The most pressing balancing issue here is not about the amount of cards a person has or the actual card balancing of each faction, it is about skill level and each players' familiarity with the game. When you add these challenges, you will balance this for sure. More advanced players and players who have obtained all the cards through whatever means will more than likely opt to do a challenge. These challenges would put the more skillful players and players with complete card sets at a disadvantage, giving the newb player with very little cards a better chance to win--players will be forced to not use the most meticulously constructed decks they have constructed for wins and opt for something they are not familiar with that may not be as good. But still, beginning players can opt to do the challenges, but these challenges will be much easier. As I said, the beginning pool of random challenges should be small and relatively easy compared to challenges players get at higher levels.
Note: Not all challenges will ask of the player to win the game, only to complete the task it asks. However, winning the game should give an additive benefit. So even if players lose because they used some off the wall construction of their cards, they may not be aggravated because they still may get the reward from completing the challenge. These challenges are different from rift runs. The player will have to really think of how to construct their own cards to complete some challenges.

4. It gives the game a dynamic feel--Right now, the game seems to be repetitive and linear, which is a big reason for the low player turnout for this game. This coupled with the cost/benefit ratio there is now, it is especially excruciating. You will see several different types of decks instead of the same ol ones over and over.

5. Players will invest in the game at earlier levels, which will help get them to stay

6. There will be more trading.

7. It will give players more reason to collect and use other factions--If the players do not have the specific cards they need to do a specific challenge, they simply cannot do the challenge. Also, there should be challenges for specific factions like the ones for Star Trek. Also, for the challenges that give the  the cards to use to complete it, it will only entice them to want to get that card for themselves because of what it can do.


So, this brings up why these challenges should be random after each match. These challenges, as I imagine them, would be impromptu. So after one infinity constructed match, you will have no idea what the next challenges might be (unless you are low level). If you do not like the random challenges, you will have to play and win a game to get to select from the next pool of random challenges--OR!, you may have won some tokens to buy your way to the next pool of random challenges, or even have to use an increasing amount of ip as you keep skipping challenges you refuse to do for whatever reason.

If this were implemented RIGHT NOW, IW's player base would skyrocket from here on out. Then, if you add this with event weekends, like golden ticket weekends and increased ip weekends, you would have the best card game hands down... People would actually put up with all the crazy, stupid bugs they've been having and still have.

Note: This would not take place of weekly quests.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 01:41:58 PM by Axeecutioner »

Offline drewmb10

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 01:36:53 PM »
I would definitely appreciate a good challenge system in place. However, you forgot that level 20 is the max--might need to adjust those numbers a bit.

Offline Axeecutioner

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2016, 01:40:05 PM »
Sorry. Ye, it used to be higher.

Offline Benionin

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 04:49:30 PM »
This is a billion dollar idea.

While I don't particularly like your model, adding challenges to the game a la weekly quests (but with more frequency. I think daily quests would be nice) would be an awesome addition to the game. I think you've overestimated its impact and might be slightly prone to hyperbole, but it's still a good idea.
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Offline Hiding

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 10:38:33 PM »
Dis sht been suggested billions times. Idk why they havent gotten a move on it yet

Offline Chappie

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2016, 06:27:05 AM »
Thanks for the input. I'll make sure it gets to our dev team.  :)

Offline Pelagoth

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2016, 07:18:17 AM »
I think you've overestimated its impact and might be slightly prone to hyperbole, but it's still a good idea.
I agree totally.

Don't overexaggerate. Marketing is still one of the biggest areas of bringing players to a game. Think of a concept in that area that will make a game/business skyrocket in possitive numbers, then rest on your millions.

I still think you have a great idea with an okay concept, could use adjustments. If this idea makes it past the developer meeting, I'd be glad to throw in some ideas and feedback of my own (hoping the devs will console the community for further feedback). :)

Offline Axeecutioner

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2016, 08:22:01 PM »
Thanks for the input. I'll make sure it gets to our dev team.  :)

Good to know someone is listening. I mean, it should be a no brainier though. This idea is synergistic, actually. The concepts mesh to make it almost impossible for a player not to get addicted to this game; and it would be efficacious, because you're adding value and more in depth game-play.

The implementation of this is in contrast to logon rewards, which is unhealthy, monotonous, and, actually, ruins game play in the long run.

Weekly quests do not add enough challenges and rewards to make this particular game prosper. The challenges and rewards in this game need to be extremely iterative, revolving around a short-spanned, intermittent reward to work ratio model.

I am an industrial psychologist/business consultant...I usually charge for this stuff, but I like this game.

I just hate when an idea is on the table that would guarantee success and it is disregarded because of headstrung, pompous, and unadaptable people--it happens all the time; these are the top reasons why most businesses fail.

And no, none of what I have said in this thread is hyperbole. Yes, this is a million dollar idea.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 08:25:41 PM by Axeecutioner »

Offline InvertedEye

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2016, 08:51:46 PM »
You are being too humble this is obviously a billion dollar idea.

Offline Benionin

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2016, 08:54:21 PM »
I just hate when an idea is on the table that would guarantee success and it is disregarded because of headstrung, pompous, and unadaptable people... And no, none of what I have said in this thread is hyperbole. Yes, this is a million dollar idea.

Are you sure you didn't mean it's a BILLION dollar idea?

I'm also wondering, based off of almost every interaction I've had with you, whether you would describe yourself as "headstrong, pompous, and unadaptable"--because I would. I like to think of myself as a reasonable, level-headed person who's willing to listen to all sides in an argument, but your insistence on being right--and the "none of what I have said in this thread is hyperbole" comment annoys me in particular--just makes me mad. Your vehement righteousness has, in effect, inspired an equally determined opposition.

I'm not going to take the time to argue against all of your points right now--and some of them are actually great points that I agree with--but I'll take the time to argue against some of them that I don't find as convincing.

Quote
There would be more trading
Honestly, I don't think so. If a newer player comes across a challenge that requires them to have a card they don't have, they might trade for it. The first time. But if these sorts of challenges keep coming up that player will simply complain about "pay-to-win" or even "pay-to-play" and, in the best case scenario, simply ignore the challenges. Worst case they quit the game. Running into a challenge that requires me to think in new ways will make me excited. Running into a challenge that just hinges on whether or not I own any particular card will annoy me. The only cards I can see a new player reasonably trading for would be ones they're already trying to trade for--so in fact there would be no actual effect on trading. Either you're already looking for these cards, already have them, or don't care to trade. A challenge, as I see it, would annoy instead of motivate players.

Oh, and don't have challenges for cards that are no longer available like Star Trek or Omni. That's just going to infuriate people.

"But Ben, people are given the option between challenges. They aren't stuck with the ones that require cards that they don't have."

Maybe so. But seeing those challenges will still give players a bitter taste in their mouths. Here I am, forced into a worse challenge because (for instance) I lack a Picard. There's no point in me trading for Picard, since Star Trek cards will be obscenely rare and pointless to newer players. So their options are actually being limited more than you would think giving them a choice of three. Which will upset people.

Let me put it another way. You've been invited to a party and informed that everyone must either wear a suit, khakis, or a dress. Now you don't have a dress (or maybe even a suit) so your options are inherently limited. Meanwhile, your brother is going to a party and he's been told to wear either jeans, khakis, or shorts. He actually gets to choose, while you don't. The point is, would you go and buy a dress because you don't feel like wearing a suit or khakis? Would you do so happily? Would you continue to do so party after party?
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Offline Axeecutioner

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2016, 09:31:10 PM »

Quote
There would be more trading
Honestly, I don't think so. If a newer player comes across a challenge that requires them to have a card they don't have, they might trade for it. The first time. But if these sorts of challenges keep coming up that player will simply complain about "pay-to-win" or even "pay-to-play" and, in the best case scenario, simply ignore the challenges. Worst case they quit the game. Running into a challenge that requires me to think in new ways will make me excited. Running into a challenge that just hinges on whether or not I own any particular card will annoy me. The only cards I can see a new player reasonably trading for would be ones they're already trying to trade for--so in fact there would be no actual effect on trading. Either you're already looking for these cards, already have them, or don't care to trade. A challenge, as I see it, would annoy instead of motivate players.


It would not. You're missing the point. There will be global and specific challenges. In the random lineup of challenges, it would be rare for there to be all specific challenges, and you can further decrease that chance by adding the challenges you have the cards for or challenges that are not specific to the random lineup. And, on top of that, lower level players will not get those types of challenges. Though, having certain cards may make it easier to complete a challenge.

And one of the synergistic components is that new players invest in the game early on rather than later. As they see returns on their investments by completing challenges, they will continue to invest and, most importantly, not leave the game for extended periods of time.

...this leaves the rest of your statement moot.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 09:36:25 PM by Axeecutioner »

Offline Teremus

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2016, 10:18:21 PM »
Quote
I'm also wondering, based off of almost every interaction I've had with you, whether you would describe yourself as "headstrong, pompous, and unadaptable"--because I would. I like to think of myself as a reasonable, level-headed person who's willing to listen to all sides in an argument, but your insistence on being right--and the "none of what I have said in this thread is hyperbole" comment annoys me in particular--just makes me mad. Your vehement righteousness has, in effect, inspired an equally determined opposition.

QFE.

There's gotta be at least one or two "I'm right and you're wrong, no matter what" in every community.

Axe doesn't have the capacity to withstand criticism or alternate perspectives, as he simply views them as inferior mentalities.

His idea is legitimate, his attitude is anything but.
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Offline MerliniX

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2016, 11:00:25 PM »
It's like there is a billion dollars right there on the ground just waiting to be picked up.

Offline ShamanExile

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2016, 12:50:02 AM »
I'm just going to address Axe's arguments and not his character, or at least try to. As people have pointed out, he has some valid points, and some invalid ones.

1) On Challenges

Honestly, I think challenges are a great idea. However, at the frequency you are suggesting of after every match, they will HARM the game more than actually benefit the game. Especially using the tier/reward system you recommend. I know that in Hearthstone (a game I tried first and disliked) there are Daily Challenges, which encourage players to log on and play in exchange for an incremental amount of in game currency (IP vs LP being our options here). The success of this system is that it does not ruin the game's current economy by flooding the "market" or player base with cards at varying rarities, which is how your proposed system's payout would work (if I read it correctly)

2) Trading

Currently, whenever you receive a card for an achievement, it is soulbound. That's an easy fix, so we'll ignore that. You posit that implementing the tiered challenge system will increase the number of available cards at specific rarities and encourage trading by having not only more product but also by requiring specific cards at higher rarities. I disagree on three points: first, the reward would have to be high enough to encourage me trading my shiny epic for someone else's epic; second, if these are available after every match as your post suggests, then why bother when I can essentially "re-roll" until a quest/challenge that I don't have to trade for comes up; and third, by increasing the availability of product you are flooding the market with high value cards that will inevitably become worth no more than a common because people continue getting them at a high frequency and want to offload them-> which will inevitably lead to poaching by higher players of new players for all the new players good cards in exchange for a legendary or epic the new player doesn't have.

3) And on Billion/Million dollar ideas...

Not a single one makes a difference if it ruins the game's economy. Let's consider this for a moment: How does Yodomare make money? By selling packs. Now, it is possible to farm for these packs, but there are a lot more players who are willing to spend real life money in exchange for LP to buy packs, battlefields, cardbacks, etc than there are those who are going to grind for 50+ hours to acquire the necessary IP to buy packs in bulk. By your suggestion of a tiered challenge system that offers new challenges/quests after every match, you eliminate the need for players to buy packs. Sure, buying packs might be more efficient, but if I can just complete a challenge/quest and be guaranteed an epic/legendary, then I have no reason to buy packs, meaning I have little incentive to spend real money on LP beyond card backs/battlefields, and there is a very finite supply of those. Eventually I as a player will just stop spending money, which minimizes Yodomare's profits, which means less money for artists (art is expensive yo), less money for devs (like DrewUniverse, who just got hired! go Drew!), less money for code monkeys (and less bananas, too!) and eventually there is no money to create new cards or to support the game. Aw shucks. Bye-Bye Infinity Wars.

While that is an extremist end all, it is an inevitability that could occur as an indirect result of implementing challenges on a match frequent basis.
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Offline Pelagoth

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Re: Challenges would save this game2
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2016, 02:15:57 AM »
Now here's a billion dollar idea: customizable battlefields with purchasable accessories. See it like housing, except you are making your own battlefield that is presented to everyone you play against. It would have all sorts of toys like interactive puffy that you can buy in the store and place it wherever and however you like it (in a certain area).

This doesn't matter, as it would require a complete redisigning of the gameboard and actual coding for such customization and interactions. Just thought I'd pitch in another billion dollar idea.