Author Topic: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?  (Read 2291 times)

Offline Benionin

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2016, 05:37:55 PM »
Yeah, the rift chain may need to be revised. I'd also point out that the current campaign completely ignores the sleepers, hence the need for Reish to be linked to the Untamed World instead of Avarrach.
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Offline Klassick

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2016, 06:57:53 AM »
Hi folks!

I don't know much about the Lore but, I'm trying to dig into it.

There are a lot of things I want to talk about lore but, let's start by some things involving the Campaign.

As far as we know, the game is about to have a relaunch so, I believe it is a good time to try to align some things and talk about some curiosities, and I will do it here!  ;D

Here we go!

1-) Campaign

1.1 Jittarians

At the first Opening Mission, it's said that the 'World' is about to be conquered by the FD but, at the map of Talich, the is a place called Jittar (Kingdom of Jittara) where the Jittarians are expecting to go to war with FD after they pass through Genesis.

Questions about it:

- Who are the Jittarians?

- Why the FD don't consider the Jittara Kingdom island a part of the world? There is an inconsistency between what is said by Aberion and the existence of the Jittarians?

- Does the FD simply ignore them, like the lands on the north of Bask? (talking about it, those lands are 'icy lands'... I guess the FLAME Dawn does not like cold places X'D)

- Maybe, there is a connection between the Jittarians and the once powerful Reish Kingdom of Jhatt? Cause the name is very similar...

- Taking Jittar in consideration, can we be certain that the FD and GI dominated the plane of Talich?


1.2 Third Opening Mission

At the start of this mission, Aberion said that Orion "can keep his little island". For sure, he's talking about Neon, that is built upon an artificial island.

Does it mean that the FD took some of the GI territory but leaved Neon and Landstead alone? I'm curious about it, because FD will declare war once again at GI (allied with OoS).


1.3 Challenge Mission: Warpath

At this mission, WP face a triple Genesis and only machines cards are at the match.

Maybe it is ok but, to me, is a little strange that Hehkeem says to Aleta that:

"These invaders look like you, they hunt us, but they do not feed after kill"

Well, Hehkeem is saying here that the ROBOTS look like Aleta... this is confusing.

Aleta talks back saying that: "I don't understand either, Hehkeen. It saddens me that after so long of looking, I have finally found my kind, only for them to kill my family. I am ashamed I was glad to see others of my kind. Our proud tribe of hunters is dying to thier cold monsters".

Ok, once more, looks like Aleta is a Robot, not a human but, at the end, she mention their "cold monsters". Again, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What you guys think?


1.4 "Challenge Mission: Flame Dawn" / "Challenge Mission: Verore" and some cards

The flavor of the Paladin of the FD talks about "dark magic" and the ability Fiery Resolve talk about Verore "death spells"... BUT FD and Verore did not met before the opening of rifts.

Maybe a change into cards flavors, as suggested here, would make sense.

OR the relaunch may show the conflits between Verore and FD in a different way to explain it.

Ok, it does make sense the "place" where those Challanges are located at the map (as the Verore and the FD are both gaining territory in the New World / Untamed World and they would meet eventually somewhere in the middle of the way between the Reish Rift and the Talich Rift) BUT... this is not explained at the Campaign. We have a chance to do it now.


2 - Some Cards

2.1 Hulker and Infested Hulker

The Hulker flavor: "Ventures to the north of the old world lead to many new discoveries, some angrier that others....."

The Infested Hulker flavor: "Not even the mighty hulkers of the east could fend off the undead threat."

Are the game talking about the same Hulkers? Because, to me, the Infested Hulker looked like a "Fallen Hulker from the north". It would make more sense that the Hulkers belongs to the same place ('north' or 'east').

2.2 The "other" human of the Old World

The Aleta Immortal Caretaker card said that is one other human at the Old World. It could be the Hermit? Coyle? Do you guys know who he is?

==

Well, that's it to start with!

Let's keep talking!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 07:07:35 AM by Klassick »

Offline Benionin

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2016, 12:03:18 PM »
My thoughts:
-Just looking at the campaign map, the Jittarians are a faction on an island to the east (the kingdom of Jhatt is a parallel meant to hype up the way the different planes reflect each other, as I see it). All of the random locations on the map do a couple of things: 1), world-building and immersion, 2) hooks for future factions/plot points. However, I actually think that's less convenient than just opening up a rift to a new world because you now have to explain why the Overseers, a bunch of flying angels who are oppressing everyone, haven't interacted with all of these random places.
-When the FD talk about conquering the whole world, either they've forgotten or don't know about Jittara or they're exaggerating. It's pretty easy to blame any claims of total world domination on FD propaganda. Also, given the description that the Jittarians are basically waiting for GI to fall and the Dawn to come after them, it seems like conquering them would be very easy. Like they're defeated before the fight has even begun. They may also be a client kingdom that the FD is looking to officially conquer.
-I can't explain what Aberion's talking about during the Third Opening Mission
-You're right about the Warpath Challenge Mission. The writers for that mission obviously wanted to point out Aleta's only-human status and the nature of the invaders, but the campaign designers wanted an interaction with GI robots for educational purposes. You could just assume that there are engineers, mechanics, and such building and maintaining the robots during the battle but it's a leap.
-The FD-Verore interaction is much more plausible with The Untamed World being a multiversal nexus, but having it be explicitly stated/explained would be nice.
-The "other human" on the Old World isn't Coyle, since he isn't immortal and he didn't show up until after the Rifts opened (hopping over from Talich). It also probably isn't the Defiant Hermit. At the moment, it will continue to be a mystery. The comment sounds like a half-thought-out plot point that was discarded--specific enough to be foreshadowing but never actually followed through.
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Offline Benionin

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2016, 11:18:26 PM »
Actually, in the continued vein of asking questions, how many rifts are there? The campaign map shows singular rifts between worlds, but I always got the impression from the cards and gameplay that there were multiple rifts opening up.
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Offline Klassick

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2016, 05:10:50 PM »
My thoughts:
-Just looking at the campaign map, the Jittarians are a faction on an island to the east (the kingdom of Jhatt is a parallel meant to hype up the way the different planes reflect each other, as I see it). All of the random locations on the map do a couple of things: 1), world-building and immersion, 2) hooks for future factions/plot points. However, I actually think that's less convenient than just opening up a rift to a new world because you now have to explain why the Overseers, a bunch of flying angels who are oppressing everyone, haven't interacted with all of these random places.

Fact. Let's wait to see what will happen with locations like these at the relaunch. I'm curious to see what will happen at the campaign map with Jittar/Jittarians, the Sanctuary (Reish) and Jhatt, because if they are a part of the map they must be considered a part of the Lore and, I want too see a logic involving all those elements.



-When the FD talk about conquering the whole world, either they've forgotten or don't know about Jittara or they're exaggerating. It's pretty easy to blame any claims of total world domination on FD propaganda. Also, given the description that the Jittarians are basically waiting for GI to fall and the Dawn to come after them, it seems like conquering them would be very easy. Like they're defeated before the fight has even begun. They may also be a client kingdom that the FD is looking to officially conquer.

Ok, it is really easy to insert the Jittarian Kingdom at the Talich 'history' but, I believe that it is important to have a coherence between what we see in the map and the Lore. I believe too that the new Campaign will take this into consideration.

About my suppositions about the Jittarians/Jhatt 'connection', it is just because of the name... but, I took in consideration too that the map show other connections like the one between the Landstead and the Ruins of the Ancient Civilizations (they are exactly same place at the Old World and Talich map), the epicenter of the Calamity and others.


-I can't explain what Aberion's talking about during the Third Opening Mission

Yup, when Aberion talks about Orion and the 'keep his little island' thing, I am sure he is talking about Neon (by the way, the image before the second mission shows Aberion, Bromich and the troops marching to a GI city in an island).

My guess is that FD gained some of the GI territory but, I am not sure of that. One of the things that lead me to this conclusion is Aberion saying that the New World and its Rift is the 'New Frontier' of the FD Cruzade. So... if the new frontier is there, he gained some of the GI territory.


-You're right about the Warpath Challenge Mission. The writers for that mission obviously wanted to point out Aleta's only-human status and the nature of the invaders, but the campaign designers wanted an interaction with GI robots for educational purposes. You could just assume that there are engineers, mechanics, and such building and maintaining the robots during the battle but it's a leap.

I would like to see more coherence at this mission... :)

-The FD-Verore interaction is much more plausible with The Untamed World being a multiversal nexus, but having it be explicitly stated/explained would be nice.
-The "other human" on the Old World isn't Coyle, since he isn't immortal and he didn't show up until after the Rifts opened (hopping over from Talich). It also probably isn't the Defiant Hermit. At the moment, it will continue to be a mystery. The comment sounds like a half-thought-out plot point that was discarded--specific enough to be foreshadowing but never actually followed through.

I would like an explanation too. If it is not possible, maybe it is a good idea to move the 'Challange Mission FD' and the 'Challange Mission Verore' to the Academy, for example.

By the way, if the IW Team make a little effort, maybe it is possible to 'insert' the Hermit and even Pras properly at the Lore. Maybe...

-------------

There other things I will talk here too, like Jubalia, Cheryl, and others. ^^

See you guys soon!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 05:19:48 PM by Klassick »

Offline Klassick

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2016, 05:22:49 PM »
Actually, in the continued vein of asking questions, how many rifts are there? The campaign map shows singular rifts between worlds, but I always got the impression from the cards and gameplay that there were multiple rifts opening up.

+1

We know that there is at least one more Rift at the WP New/Old World (from were the Sleepers came), but I have the impression too that we have lots of rifts.

Offline Benionin

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2016, 05:35:38 PM »
There other things I will talk here too, like Jubalia, Cheryl, and others. ^^

The precurser angels are pretty interesting lore-wise, and I think the biggest question is actually that of Radariah. While Cheryl was clearly a proto-overseer, from her name (The Forward Scout) to her outfit and weapons, and Jubalia at least used guns, Radariah has a completely different outfit and is wielding a SWORD. Off of the top of my head I can't think of any other Overseers who use swords, let alone dress like that. It's also worth noting that Radariah is the only one of the precurser angels who did not receive a new card within the Overseers faction.

Moreover, since Karani had to explicitly open Solace's Gate to allow the Overseers to intervene, how did the precursers even get here? Were they around as stewards, perhaps? Or is there a smaller portal that they used that simply would not be feasible for transporting an entire army? And why is the new Cheryl so much worse than her previous version?
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Offline Klassick

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2016, 01:53:15 AM »
There other things I will talk here too, like Jubalia, Cheryl, and others. ^^

The precurser angels are pretty interesting lore-wise, and I think the biggest question is actually that of Radariah. While Cheryl was clearly a proto-overseer, from her name (The Forward Scout) to her outfit and weapons, and Jubalia at least used guns, Radariah has a completely different outfit and is wielding a SWORD. Off of the top of my head I can't think of any other Overseers who use swords, let alone dress like that. It's also worth noting that Radariah is the only one of the precurser angels who did not receive a new card within the Overseers faction.

Moreover, since Karani had to explicitly open Solace's Gate to allow the Overseers to intervene, how did the precursers even get here? Were they around as stewards, perhaps? Or is there a smaller portal that they used that simply would not be feasible for transporting an entire army? And why is the new Cheryl so much worse than her previous version?

Perfect!  ;D

And I agree too that the new Cheryl is... TERRIBLE! Even Jubalia OoS version is strange, by the way... The art is ok, but her moviments are strange as hell!!

Other points/questions:

- What's the relation between Cheryl and Jubalia? Maybe there is a connection between them, taking in consideration that Jubalia was a 'messenger' while the Sleepers was 'rising' (Rise set) and, 'after that', the Forward Scout came (Infestation)...

- Jubalia was a Messenger and AFTER her 'mission' she gained the Valiant 'title'? Or for being The Valiant she got out of Solace as a Messenger? (I believe that the first option is the right one, as the card got more 'powerful' but... never knows...)

- Jubalia had came to bring a message from or to The Mortal Dimensions? Or she was a Messenger like a soldier employed in reconnoitering only?

========

Well, other than that, since my friend Benionin has already explored with his usual assertiveness the point I was willing to debate, I will go to another one!

(and oh, Benionin, I am your fan mate! it is excelent to have someone like you helping at the Lore!)

The Glorious Warrior, Banish and Noble Protector Alt-arts cards

Well, at the Glorious Warrior alt-art card we can see what looks like to be a 'tension' between characters of the OoS and Dod.

But, at the Banish alt-art card we can see the DoD Glorious Warriors being attacked by the OoS angel (and I guess that the card flavor suggests too that the Glorious Warriors, a symbol of the DoD were been deemed "unworthy").

Ok, we have other cards too that suggest that DoD are not really 'fans' of the Overseers (like Lance of Jinhai) and this might suggest that at the Rebelion Set the DoD will be one of the factions leading this movement against the OoS but...

BUT... what surprises me the most is to see the Noble Protector defending the Glorious Warrior at this card Alt-Art.

For me, it looks like that the Noble is blocking a Banish Magical Ability (it is a white ray, after all).

THIS IS S-T-R-A-N-G-E.

Although, taking in consideration the FD nature (they are not 'ashamed' of turning their weapons against the ones that once were their allies) MAYBE, an alliance here is not that absurd.

After all, the logic of that famous Arab saying may work here:

“I against my brother; I and my brother against my cousin; I and my brother and my cousin against the world.”

After all too:

- The Campaign shows that the FD and the Verore doesn't like each other (DoD don't like CoV too);

- At Order, the DoD joined the ones fighting the Sleepers and maybe, there was a contact between Aberion and Gao Han;

- The Sleepers Menace has been controlled... and now the OoS (Sol) is requiring "obedience" (Oppress Card [Opression] information);

- The trade routes to Talich are closed (Pillage the Village [Opression] card information), which means that maybe the routes to Reisch are not...

It absurd to think this way? Are maybe those Alt-Arts cards a part of the Lore?

P.S. And oh, how do we know that Bromich have died?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:59:14 AM by Klassick »

Offline NatoPotato

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2016, 02:21:23 AM »
P.S. And oh, how do we know that Bromich have died?

There was a campaign mission where FD and GI fought against sleepers and you're supposed to give bromich a jetpack so he can kill a cyber infested dragon.
(Only reason I remember it is because I saw that it was clearly trying to force me to sacrifice bromich and I was like 'puffy that' and found a way to finish it without bromich dying. ;D)

Offline Benionin

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2016, 03:30:54 AM »
Concerning the Alt-arts:

Short Answer: There's no lore connection, just the artists doing cool stuff.

Not-Nearly-as-Short Answer: Although I can't think of any reason for the FD and DoD to ally wholesale, it is possible that an individual FD soldier unilaterally leaped to the Glorious Warrior's defense. This would likely take place on the Untamed World. Why don't I think a major alliance isn't possible? For one, the FD and DoD have completely different mindsets. More importantly, there is a definite tension between the Overseers and DoD that will probably be played out in Rebellion, while the FD are clinging more and more closely to their angelic allies. I totally believe that an Overseer would be shooting a Glorious Warrior, but a systematic FD-DoD alliance is, at the current time, completely out of the question.
This isn't to say that it would be impossible for an FD soldier to leap to the Glorious Warrior's defense. It's entirely possible that he saw the beam of light and jumped before even seeing who was shooting (though unlikely, and not the only explanation). IW has some complex characters who aren't always going to toe the line of official policy--much as humans do in real life. There are even (minor) disagreements between upper-level Overseers on how they should be prosecuting the war and whether or not they should be involved (compare Lil's alliance approach to Sol's Nuke 'em and Shoot 'em tactics). Likewise, there could be and probably is dissension within the ranks or even leadership of the human factions on who they should be fighting. Perhaps this one lone soldier decided that he'd had enough of Aberion's alliance with the Overseers and that he was going to defend his fellow man (which could be motivated by a wide spectrum of factors, from lofty principles to less lofty things like racism).
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Offline Benionin

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2016, 03:41:02 AM »
(and oh, Benionin, I am your fan mate! it is excelent to have someone like you helping at the Lore!)

I'm flattered, but I'll be the first to point out that I'm working in a speculative, unofficial capacity here. Thanks for the praise though. I've put a lot of work into understanding the Lore.
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Offline Teremus

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Re: Dear Yodomare: What's Canon?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2016, 10:12:55 AM »
Canon's fire ammunition out of them in order to destroy non-cheese loving blasphemers.

This is their original design.
No seriously, I really like cheese.

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