Author Topic: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs  (Read 28830 times)

Offline Crestmoor

  • Infinity Wars Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 353
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #345 on: March 08, 2016, 02:48:11 PM »
Let us know what you think and what other suggestions you'd like us to consider!

Never been on the PBE, but Electro said he pulled 8 legendaries in 99 packs earlier in this thread. That's like 1/12 Legendary Chance. For a booster that costs almost half the old boosters. And those boosters have like a 1/20-1/25 legendary chance.

So... you've basically quadrupled the legendary drop rate per IP spent. My concern is... can you even make money selling packs if it's going to be so much easier to grind IP and F2P the game?
Reth brings a very good point here and it's something I mentioned on the post where I linked my factionless stats. It's great and all that the rates are now higher, but make sure they're economically viable for LM/Yodo. Opening 100 preorder packs and getting 1 legendary SUCKS, but getting 6~8 might just bee a bit too much. It would likely mean that there's no trading required after you opened the preorders, only if you're looking for platfoils.

Again, the rates are fantastic, but please be very careful about what you're going to implement in the real servers, as this might simply break the economy beyond repair (and your profits)

yep and thanks for the feedback.  We'll be monitoring the card economy as well as card packs purchased very carefully once the changes go live and if we need to make further adjustments, we'll again share our thinking with the community before committing to changes.
Crestmoor the Omnimind
-----------------------------
Draft deck with Omnimind, Lanstead and War Machine = A can of WhoopAss for all occasions

Offline Adorabear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #346 on: March 08, 2016, 02:52:32 PM »
we'll again share our thinking with the community before committing to changes.

This half sentence is the most encouraging hope inducing thing you've said since... well since ever. I think you'll save yourself a lot of dev time and money by continuing this wonderful theme of communication before commitment.

Thanks for listening. I am looking forward to seeing future developments.
Goose got me loose!

Offline watchmedie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #347 on: March 08, 2016, 03:07:13 PM »
you guys should really consider keep the drop rates as were in the 1k test.
yes getting 1 leg in 100 packs suck.
so implement a grace system in which the server count packs opened per client and either gives an increased chance at higher end card per pack opened or just straight out counts to a number and once that number is reached you get said high end card 100% on your next pack.
you guys don't even have to tell us how it works or that a system like that exists.
also you don't have to implement it THIS patch you can add it next patch.
just saying that a system like that or something more rng based solves all the issues, w/o hurting the game economy and your profits.

edit: didn't add that once you do get a high end card counter resets (kind obvious though)

Offline GTRMERCY1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #348 on: March 08, 2016, 06:06:49 PM »
After getting back on the PBE earlier today for more penta testing these are my results:

x15 Penta for each faction or 75 cards.

1.   Flamedawn: 0 Factionless, 35 C, 23 UC, 13 R, 3 E, 1 L.  1 Foil C, 1 Foil UC.

2.   Genesis:  0 Factionless, 32 C, 22 UC, 17 R, 2 E, 2 L.   1 Foil C, 2 Gold & 2 Foil UC, 1 Foil R.

3.   Warpath:  0 Factionless, 33 C, 26 UC, 10 R, 4 E, 2 L.   3 Foil C, 1 Gold UC, 1 Foil E.

4.   Cult of Verore:   0 Factionless, 35 C, 21 UC, 15 R, 4 E, 0 L.   1 Gold C.



Further looking at factionless drops.

x30 Collection penta or 150 cards.

7 Factionless, 4 C, 1 UC, 2 R, 0 E, 0 L.

Faction rare or above totals:   22 R, 6 E, 3 L.
Faction Premiums: 2 Gold C, 2 Foil & 1 Gold UC, 1 Gold Rare.


Offline ORISOLVE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • In the service of The Holy Roman Empire since 2016
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #349 on: March 08, 2016, 08:40:30 PM »
These new Penta Packs have my seal of approval for now;D

Here is my analysis why:

1. Five Cards per Penta Pack
Although many may say that getting less cards is bad, on the contrary reducing the number of cards per pack good for the game. It would give the appearance that Commons/Uncommons are not completely useless. This shifts value into Common/Uncommon cards and we would likely see more trades of these low rarity cards in the near future. This is ideal in a free market trading card game. Even Veteran players would start trading Commons/Uncommon for Rares instead of giving them away.
If you are a new player, this scenario doesn't seem appealing at first, but allow me to get to my other points further down this post. Keep in mind that when Commons/Uncommons hold value, you would be likely to trade your very own Commons/Uncommons 1:1 with another new player, resulting in everyone being happy.

2. Increased Accessibility to Premiums
With Premiums becoming more accessible to new and veteran players alike, new collectors emerge creating more demand for these Premiums. The rates of Golds and Foil have definitely increased significantly, however Gold Foils still seem to be extremely difficult to get. As a result, Veteran players that have been collecting Gold Foils would not have their current collections devalued. Before, acquiring an entire Gold or Foil deck would seem impossible, which is why many newer players would prefer trade their cards for usable cards instead of collecting them themselves. Now that having an entire Gold or Foil deck is within grasps reach, I expect the trade chat to have increased in demand with regards to trading Golds for Golds, instead of the same 3 people trading Non-Premiums for Golds/Foils. LM/Yodo1 increased the rates at an optimal amount, not enough to overwhelm the economy with useless Golds and devaluing collections, but enough to create desires in becoming a Premium Collector. With an increase in Premium demand, values of Premiums may rise, giving cards a reasonable monetary value. This benefits both new and veteran players alike.

3. Reduced Drop Rates of Rares / Increased Drop Rates of Epics & Legendaries
Before, everyone wanted a certain Legendary or Epic, but they had only Rares to trade. No one would be stupid enough to trade a Legendary for even 30 Rares. However now, this trade would be more than reasonable for the player trading the Legendary. Rares had been flooding the economy making it about as worthless and Commons/Uncommons. The only thing separating such a distinction was that you are guaranteed only one Rare+ per pack that costs 5250IP. With these shifts to Drop Rates, Rares are deserving of their tier status, because it seems that in most packs, getting an Epic & Rare is highly unlikely. You would most likely get 4 Commons + 1 Epic. With the Legendary & Epic Drop Rates increased and replacing the Rare all together. I'm not saying it is impossible to get a Rare + Legendary in one pack, it is just less likely in my opinion. With these new Drop Rates, the potential for trades of 3 Rares for 1 Epic is much more likely to happen. I might even say that with these Penta Pack changes, 2 Rares for an Epic is an entirely fair trade. Many players in the past have complained about this being a Pay to Win game, due to the fact that they have been unable to acquire a single Legendary with hours and hours of game play. The new Penta Pack Drop Rates seems to suggest that most will be able to get at least 1 Legendary per 15 packs. This is all for appearance's sake. If you are new and suddenly have a Legendary card you would most likely continue to play the game, because you now have a card of value in your eyes. As many have stated, Infinity Wars does not require Legendaries to win in competitive formats such as Tournaments or Ranked. A new player having a Legendary does not make them instantly an OP player. Letting them have a Legendary simply retains them in the game longer. These Penta Pack changes will indirectly influence new player retention on a psychological level. As a veteran player, how will these changes impact you? I am a veteran player that has played over 5000 hours, and I still do not have every card in the game. Finally being able to finish my collection, and moving onto Premium collecting is beneficial to me. Have you ever wanted those 3 Martyr Golems, 3 Immovables, 3 Primal Hunters to finish up that Descendants of the Dragon deck you have always wanted to play, but you couldn't because it wasn't optimal to play that deck without these Legendaries? Are you tired of those scumbag traders, not trading you any of their Legendaries except for Premiums, just taunting you with cards that they have rotting in their collection when you could be using it to have fun? Well fear no longer, with the introduction of Faction Packs along with these increased Epic/Legendary Drop Rates, you can say fk them and just get the cards yourself. Then you laugh at them trying to trade 1 Legendary for 10 Golds when the economy has clearly shifted.

4. Faction Packs Only Costing LP
This is slightly non-beneficial to Free to Play Players, but think of it as a necessary evil in order for the success and the future of the game. Infinity Wars is a business not a charity, no matter how much we want it to be. They need to make money and pay their employees. To Pay to Play Players however, the ability to purchase a pack of your choice with your desired Faction without those stupid Factionless cards is ideal. You want that Klore? You want that Primal Hunter? Well you know exactly where and how you can get it. You could also purchase Collection Penta Packs, for 2x more cards and hope to trade/acquire it eventually. As a new player you want to focus on a faction, Faction Packs are a perfect buy. If you are a Paying Veteran Player looking for that Gold Foil Primal Hunter, you know exactly where you can get it. If you are looking for a Gold Foil Martyr Golem, go fk yourself because you're never going to get 1, which is essentially the same scenario as we are in now Pre-Penta Pack era.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 08:43:23 PM by ORISOLVE »
Where there's a will, there's a way.


Offline Interesting_Socks

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #350 on: March 08, 2016, 09:17:47 PM »
Thanks Ori!

Offline Wayfinder1026

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Anime Freak
    • View Profile
    • Wattpad Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #351 on: March 09, 2016, 06:04:10 AM »
you guys should really consider keep the drop rates as were in the 1k test.
yes getting 1 leg in 100 packs suck.
so implement a grace system in which the server count packs opened per client and either gives an increased chance at higher end card per pack opened or just straight out counts to a number and once that number is reached you get said high end card 100% on your next pack.
you guys don't even have to tell us how it works or that a system like that exists.
also you don't have to implement it THIS patch you can add it next patch.
just saying that a system like that or something more rng based solves all the issues, w/o hurting the game economy and your profits.

edit: didn't add that once you do get a high end card counter resets (kind obvious though)

That's an interesting concept
*No one's noticed i'm a madman*

Offline Hacker

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 125
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #352 on: March 13, 2016, 01:03:56 AM »
A few things.

firstly prior to the most recent change I opened 99000 LP worth of packs from all packs.

I got 32 golds, 30 foils 40 epics and less than ten legends.

This was absolutely crap and probably below par for the average, but if someone is going to invest over 600 US dollars in a game they expect a hell of a lot more than that. I probably opened more packs than anyone in two hits so it was a fair reflection of what one could expect.

People need to feel, new players that is, that they are getting a fair return for there investment.

Factionless cards. Fair enough there may be some tweaking in order to get the numbers right for what is driopping but it was logical to have them drop in normal packs, they are a small card pool and contain some of the most importanat cards in the current game.

People are not going to buy a huge amount of them but if you rely on getting your nartyrs only from thatpack, or even clamity it would have to sell for a higher price. There would end up being a shortage of both those cards in the game.

The direction taken of including them in all packs was the best one to take.
The Hacker

Offline ORISOLVE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • In the service of The Holy Roman Empire since 2016
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #353 on: March 13, 2016, 03:30:43 AM »
I opened more packs prior. You opened a maximum of 660 packs.  ;)

I disagree. When Factionless cards were included, roughly 3 out of 5 cards in the Faction Booster packs were Factionless. That's an absurd amount, especially when you are paying double the price. Sure, we got some Calamities and Martyr Golems in the packs, but we also got a bunch of useless Factionless cards such as Aleta, Immortal Traveler. These cards replaced the supposed "Faction" cards we were paying for.

I feel like a good way of going about things is to create a Factionless Pack purchasable with LP and IP at triple (3x) the price. This amount can be reduced when new sets arrive and more Factionless cards are included.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:33:37 AM by ORISOLVE »
Where there's a will, there's a way.


Offline Adorabear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #354 on: March 13, 2016, 07:42:11 AM »
If theres 5 cards in a penta pack and 1 of them has to be a rare+ then how many are uncommon?

Is the average pack

1 rare
1 uncommon
3 commons

Because if thats the case that would make uncommons just as rare as rares. In fact it would make them MORE rare than rares because there are more uncommons to collect than rares and in general they are better cards that you often need full play sets of.

And if there is 2 uncommons in the pack that would cause the same issue with commons actually being more rare than uncommons.
Goose got me loose!

Offline wooferdog

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #355 on: March 13, 2016, 10:40:09 AM »
If theres 5 cards in a penta pack and 1 of them has to be a rare+ then how many are uncommon?

I felt that common/uncommon appeared to have no priority and were treated equal in drop rate. Only when I looked at my final totals did I notice that I have more commons (110) versus uncommons (83).

Offline Nehkrimah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #356 on: March 13, 2016, 11:24:15 AM »
If theres 5 cards in a penta pack and 1 of them has to be a rare+ then how many are uncommon?

In the 500 packs I opened, the ratio would appear to be around 2.5 common, 1.5 Uncommon, 1 Rare.

The base pack is 4 common and 1 rare, it seems to me that they have reached the correct balance for uncommons, and you also get 5c/3u/1r from daily rewards in the new scheme for the first 3 days.

In the 500 packs I recorded, there were 1220 commons, 707 Uncommons, 492 Rares

Offline Pelagoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Sock Puppet
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #357 on: May 20, 2016, 07:54:59 AM »
Necrobump. Can someone sticky this or make it easier accessible for reference? New Players Keep asking about rewards and puffy. Would be nice to find it easier than going through all the pages.

Offline Cleanse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
    • View Profile
    • Message Cleanse on Infinity Wars Wiki
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #358 on: May 20, 2016, 08:56:53 AM »
Necrobump. Can someone sticky this or make it easier accessible for reference? New Players Keep asking about rewards and puffy. Would be nice to find it easier than going through all the pages.

I've added it to the wiki. http://infinity-wars.wikia.com/wiki/Rift_Run

Can someone confirm that the prize structure is still the same as Rikki's post? Also, are the packs collection packs? I would assume so but it doesn't say.

Offline Pelagoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Sock Puppet
    • View Profile
Re: [Weekly Post #3] Rift Run Rewards and Penta Packs
« Reply #359 on: May 20, 2016, 09:05:51 AM »
I've added it to the wiki. http://infinity-wars.wikia.com/wiki/Rift_Run


Can someone confirm that the prize structure is still the same as Rikki's post? Also, are the packs collection packs? I would assume so but it doesn't say.
If you mean the guaranteed rare 5 wins, epic 10 wins & leg 21 wins, then yes, I can confirm. I can also confirm the top 50 placement rewards.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 09:10:42 AM by Pelagoth »