Author Topic: Is OOS healthy for the game?  (Read 13325 times)

Offline Candit

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 05:33:19 AM »
Yes, Heaven's Assistance was nerfed when they took away flying. You're not usually gonna get any more than 5 vanilla tokens with it so it's basically the same as the zombie recruit card.

Anyways, rather than the current champion system I would have made the champs like Monarchs in Yugioh, where once deployed they get a small effect kinda like Harahel's tokens. Kraos kinda worked that way too. This would balance things out if forerunner was lowered to +2/2.

OOS could also make something out of the banish mechanic so as to drop the cost of certain creatures depending on how many cards are RFG.This way the OOS would not just be known as the flying faction (Scouting Mission).
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Offline Ragnoraok

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 01:00:02 AM »
I suggest nerfing Forerunner to

2 resources 1/1 "Gain +2/2 everytime a Champion is summoned."

That's a bit harsh to kill base stats, boost, and cost. Choose 1, choose 2, but smashing all 3 is in all likelihood not the solution.

You're right, keep it at 1 resource, but the rest should stay. I am heavily against the card being used to promote rushdown strategies, when the faction already has a myriad of other tools to rather easily end the match: the most fliers, synergy/boosts from other cards, and removals (Banish, Box of Wonders, etc). Allowing this faction to get off 20+ damage by the end of turn 3 is not balanced at all, because of the aforementioned reasons.

Offline ORISOLVE

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2015, 05:40:43 AM »
I suggest nerfing Forerunner to

2 resources 1/1 "Gain +2/2 everytime a Champion is summoned."

That's a bit harsh to kill base stats, boost, and cost. Choose 1, choose 2, but smashing all 3 is in all likelihood not the solution.

That's funny because that is exactly what Lightmare might do.  :P
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Offline Nehkrimah

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2015, 05:58:56 AM »
I think even just making Tempus a 2 cost would do a great deal to knock the Forerunner down a peg.

Offline Axeecutioner

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2015, 06:18:31 AM »
why more nerfs...nerfs the answer to everything. Why not make a factionless card that prevents character cards abilities from procing while on battlefield?

Offline Benionin

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2015, 07:44:45 AM »
why more nerfs...nerfs the answer to everything. Why not make a factionless card that prevents character cards abilities from procing while on battlefield?
So let's make this clear: nerfing everything into the ground won't magically "fix" the game. There will always be stronger cards and stronger strategies than others, and there will always be weaker counterparts. However, tuning down overbearing strategies, tuning up struggling strategies, or shifting power within a faction from one set of cards to another, is the way to go. There's a reason it's called "balance," not "whack-a-mole."

On a side note, mentioning Demon of Fear really makes me mad. It's still a usable, decent card. It has won me plenty of games since it was nerfed. And while everyone complains about it, I think the Demon of Fear change was actually a good example of balancing: shifting a faction's focus away from certain cards towards what it was actually designed to do. For Demon of Fear and Verorian Hydra, that meant hitting Verore's midgame creatures while continuing to give it excellent control options. For the Overseers, we're looking to move away from the first two turns of the game being quite as overbearing as they are.

From a design standpoint, the Flame Dawn is the rush faction. It's what they do. And it makes players mad whenever somebody else can outrush the Flame Dawn like the Overseers can right now with Forerunners, because the Flame Dawn are supposed to be the rushiest rushers who ever rushed. Verore's gonna spellsling, Warpath's gonna ramp, DoD's gonna defend, and Flame Dawn is gonna rush. So out-rushing the Flame Dawn, from a design philosophy standpoint, isn't cool. The Overseers' identity, as I see it, revolves around flying Angels and removing cards from the game (what I refer to as the "Purifier ability"). LM has mentioned that there's a Unique Character theme going on as well, which was emphasized by the Champion mechanic. There's even a healing theme. At the moment, we're discussing taking away some of the champion-centric power that enables the angels to rush so effectively. Someone suggested putting the power into the Purifier ability, which may be something worth looking into. But simply nerfing the Overseers into the ground is not the purpose of this discussion.
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Offline Interesting_Socks

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2015, 08:08:13 AM »
why more nerfs...nerfs the answer to everything. Why not make a factionless card that prevents character cards abilities from procing while on battlefield?

Because no one wants to play a game of abuse the broken. Just throwing OP cards at your opponent until you find one that he hasn't prepared for, that's not fun for anyone involved.

Offline Axeecutioner

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2015, 08:29:47 AM »
How about this, fore every nerf, LM buffs a card that needs a buff?
Lets start with Xac, Brimstone, Firestarter, Silfurstar, and one or two of the Star Trek cards--this will balance out some of the nerfs that have already happend...
 And then I will be happy =)

Im not talking silly buffs like they did with Aberion that absolutely did nothing for the card, it's still a subpar card.

Offline Thechynd

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2015, 10:00:11 AM »
For Forerunner's I think making them a 4/4 that gets +2/+2, having them only gain attack or nerfing Tempus like Nehkrimah suggested would all be decent solutions.

For Champion's Companion I think this could be a reasonable fix: "When you deploy a champion any abilities that were targeting your previous champion have their target changed to your new champion".

Offline jakinbandw

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2015, 01:06:55 PM »
If one of the focuses of the oos is healing, why not make the forerunner be something like: When you deploy a champion gain 5 health. It would stop the rush, and while keeping the card good at being a bonus for swapping out champions. Might need to be more health be useful late game, but, the idea stands.

Offline Rionoskae

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2015, 01:46:50 PM »
I would love the healing aspect...Would make a Dugg Deck nearly viable! :)

Offline Zdude

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2015, 07:07:01 PM »
my 2 cents about the question of the thread> No.

Offline Hiding

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2015, 07:39:58 PM »
I actually have no idea what Oos is supposed to represent. I mean they have flying but that's mainly just unblockable damage if you think about it (hows this that different than FD?). It has champions that focus on 1 character yet it also has mass buff aspects which focuses on multiple characters. I feel they need to make it more focus on a certain aspect like maybe healing or very powerful champions. Frontrunner was an ok attempt at the champion utilization technique but I still feel it promotes something wrong.

I feel like champions need to be very very powerful and change whole strategies depending on which champion is selected. Perhaps make them only temporarily removed as well like the avatars. Of course they would need something a bit drastic to hold them back, but it would help define the faction a bit more instead of: "lots of flying stuff with... like some other things"

Perhaps: Make champions only available in command zone. When one is played, the other is returned to command zone. When one is killed/removed it returns to command zone exhausted next turn with a permanently increased cost. All other characters should be made worse to focus the faction around champions.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 07:41:39 PM by Hiding »

Offline ecliptix

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2015, 08:16:14 PM »
Let's get two things straight in this thread now -

1.) OOS as a faction isn't OP or remotely close to OP.

2.) Tempus/Forerunner early rush has the highest damage output/cost in the game and very nearly outpaces the fastest FD rush you can do.

The problem imo here is a case of faction identity disconnect. If FD could do something like this it would be completely reasonable and a part of what is already expected of FD. Nobody most people won't complain when the rushing faction rushes you. Its kind of what they do. The tempus rush though, to me, is the equivalent of giving DoD strong removal spells. I like dynamic factions that have a wide range of application as much as anybody. But when a faction becomes too flexible and capable of doing what all factions can do well it becomes a "God Faction" (queue tap-hat for ironic comparison).

I think what OOS is supposed to be is a well balanced faction that's a jack-of-all trades but a master of none. For the most part, it can do anything the other factions can do just not as well. The tempus rush though breaks this and can outrush the rushing faction.

Change Tempus to a 2 cost and it basically fixes this imbalance without really changing the practical application of her. It gives other factions that one turn of breathing room that prevents OOS openings from becoming a FD clone with wings.

TLDR;

1.) Oos =/= FD
2.) Making tempus 2 cost ends the pseudo-FD shenanigans
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Offline Knive8s9704

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Re: Is OOS healthy for the game?
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2015, 08:56:37 PM »
2.) Tempus/Forerunner early rush has the highest damage output/cost in the game and very nearly outpaces the fastest FD rush you can do.

This is actually not true. FD can easily out damage Tempus/Forerunner rush early on but the capability to get buffed and flying is what differentiate OOS. FD cards also lack defense, easily taken out by AOE while OOS has AOE defense built into cassial + higher defense due to buffs.

Making Tempus 2 cost would essentially make people carry 3 forerunner and 3 box in the 3P OOS deck. Which isn't necessarily going to stop the rush tempo...

Turn 1: box or forerunner
Turn 2: tempus +box (if box first turn)
Turn 3: tempus + 2 9/9s or 3 6/6s on field...