Author Topic: Warcry Cost  (Read 1701 times)

Offline Goldschuss

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Warcry Cost
« on: June 16, 2015, 10:02:55 AM »
I think that the ability Card Warcry is too expensive with +3/+0 which also lasts only for 1 turn and only if they are in the assault zone.
If the buff was permanent, like daodes protection (with 2 cost) then I'd agree, but Warcry as of now is overpriced imo.

Offline CommunistMountain

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 01:14:37 PM »
Do note that you cannot compare Daode's Protection with this as a complete mirror, as Health is a lot less important than Power, the latter being able to act as a win condition.

However, it is true that it doesn't see much play. I would be fine with a slight buff, but it would open a whole can of worms comparing it with the supposedly better Precautionary Measures as its Rare. It's nerf was too extreme IMO, but that's another story. (e.g. if Warcry is buffed to cost 3, PM's only redeeming feature would be the ability to buff characters of all zones, but that would have little impact as it lasts only for a turn)

Offline Goldschuss

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 01:37:24 PM »
Alright if not daodes protection, then lets take Guns of Goliath as a pendant.

Everyone (not just assault zone) gets 2/2, and its permanent.

Just make Warcry permanent, like the other spells and I'm completly fine with it.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 02:11:07 PM by Goldschuss »

Offline Interesting_Socks

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 07:02:09 PM »
I think the concept of warcry is cool, and temporary buffs just aren't common enough in IWs. It's just too expensive, maybe a 2 cost +3 might see play?

Precautionary Measures should just be +3/+3 for the turn. While a lot of people think that temporary health buffs are pointless, they actually have a great use for defending. The way I play OS is to stall my opponents attack while I push through with unblockable flyers. I'd at least test it if IWs restored the health buff aspect.

Offline JSlayerXero

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 07:36:13 PM »
Precautionary Measures can potentially allow you to block one extra attack with a character, or if you're using it on an Unstoppable, take one more hit.

I would think Warcry fits best in massive swarms of small characters. Something like a huge Sleepers invasion or something. Can't say if it's really that great in the Meta, but in theory that's a use for it.

I dunno. Temporary buffs are kind of bizarre. They're much harder to calculate the value of when compared to a permanent buff.
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Offline Goldschuss

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2016, 11:39:17 AM »
*Push*

Warcry still overpriced.

Offline HeliosAFlame

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 12:33:02 PM »
Warcry atm is actually very playable in rift. Its not going to be your best card but its way better than the junk cards you see quite often. I think 3 would probably be fine but 2 would be so insane in rift. easy to combo with stumbles + haste creatures or just use as a standard combat trick rather than a finisher.

At 2 it could also be pretty damn swingey in constructed. The current fd/soa deck can get at least 8 creatures fairly easily with cheap costs aleta and pyr. I magine just all inning with that + aleta from command + double warcry for an extra 54 dmg for 4 mana.

Offline Klassick

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2016, 02:59:51 PM »
I really have to think more about it but, in a first moment, I don't think Warcry is "overpriced".

Taking in consideration that the card is one purity FD ability and the FD mechanics, if this card has a lower cost it could be easilly combined with other FD habilities or characters.

Let's remember too that FD has Bromich, his banner, characters that can attack twice in turn and lot's of removal habilities.

If Warcry had a lower cost, it could be very, very lethal.

By the way, I used Warcry at the pauper tourney, and it had won two games for me.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 03:01:53 PM by Klassick »

Offline Goldschuss

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2016, 03:14:53 PM »

Taking in consideration that the card is one purity FD ability and the FD mechanics, if this card has a lower cost it could be easilly combined with other FD habilities or characters.

Let's remember too that FD has Bromich, his banner, characters that can attack twice in turn and lot's of removal habilities.

Thats the point of a complex card game, no? If you can't WomboCombo with it, it's pretty useless.
That is unless it provides some consistency, like a permanent stat buff, then it has some value later on.

Also IW doesn,t balance around pauper.

Offline TheRealTuna

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2016, 04:02:31 PM »
I agree with Helios' line of thinking (this is one of very few times his thinking/gameplay has been correct, usually it is extremely incorrect and he should feel bad about that).


In my opinion, there are good cards, and there are rift cards.

Paladin of the Flame Dawn is a good card. You would use this card in pretty much any variation of FD you'd build for constructed.

Knight of the Flame Dawn (Vanilla 7/7) is a rift card. You would likely not use this card in constructed if you had access to better cards, but it is still acceptable to pick in rift depending on your picks. It has decent stats and provides some usage, but is not optimal.

So, in short, good cards are cards that are optimal or close to optimal that you'd pick for a competitive constructed deck, and rift cards are suboptimal but still impactful cards.

As is argued by the OP, Warcry is not an optimal card. The advantage it provides for its cost is in almost all cases not worthy of a competitive constructed deck. However, it is suboptimal and still impactful, so it is definitely worth grabbing in many cases in rift.

I just finished a 47 win rift run and many of those games I won because of Warcry combined with Pyr and Sufferer tokens.

Ultimately, it depends on what LM's intention is. Is their goal to make all cards as close to optimal as possible and all playable in constructed? Or is their intention to make some cards intentional suboptimal so their only use is in rift.

Who knows. I think Warcry is fine as it is now, as a suboptimal but usable draft pick.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 04:06:03 PM by TheRealTuna »

Offline ToxicShadow

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2016, 05:36:47 PM »
I could live with a cost reduction by one. But I don't think it's necessary. Warcry is no bad card per se, there are just better alternatives like Bromichs banner. It is a card that can be used as a replacement for a better card that you don't have yet, or in rift as a solid choice. If we wanted to rework every card to be optimal, there would be a lot of other cards that are in a much worse spot that would need some improvement first.

I used to run warcry in a 2FD/SoA Infested knight deck back then when the sleeper token ability was still 1 purity, and it did pretty well to break down the opponents defenses with tokens as preparation for infested knight.

Offline MerliniX

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2016, 05:40:15 PM »
Warcry is fine imo. It is perfectly playable in Rift, and if it wasn't crowded out by things like Intimidating Rally I could even see specific instances where it might see play in constructed.

Buffing the card by reducing its cost would give FD an unnecessary buff. They are already quite strong as is - they do not need more cards bumped into the 'hyper optimal' category.

Offline Pixelei

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 06:32:05 PM »

That is unless it provides some consistency, like a permanent stat buff, then it has some value later on.


It does, actually. FD is about finding ways to break through to the fortress, be it by stumbling exhausting or flat out killing defenders.

The permanent buff with Warcry is that it clears the defense zone for the next turn.

Even then, Bromich's banner does a better job in that regard. I used Warcry in a couple of constructed decks and it did come in useful at times. Not very often, granted, but at times.

Offline Goldschuss

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2016, 09:24:42 AM »
I'm not a veteran player and my point of view might be wrong, but after all, rift run is a sidemode.
And the game game shouldn't be balanced around a side mode.
How about 2 different balance sets? League of Legends already does that, for their main map and their 3v3 map.

Yes, FD itself is a strong faction I agree and there are probably other cards that need tweaks, but I can only talk for FD and maybe Exiles, as those are the only factions I play regularly

Offline Crestmoor

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Re: Warcry Cost
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2016, 10:00:36 AM »
warcry is very useful "as is" right now both in rift as well as in constructed.  I don't play triple FD decks much but with a FD/Sleeper deck with lots of undead in play, a carefully placed warcry can wipe out an opponent in one foul swoop.

typical strategy I've deployed is to fear+caltrop to exhaust all opoonents characters in one turn, then deploy a mass of undead + warcry the next turn for GG.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 10:03:19 AM by Crestmoor »
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