Author Topic: Questions about Same-Day tournaments  (Read 3206 times)

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2015, 07:36:52 AM »
I'm a worrywort at heart. I always have to consider the worst case scenario. Chances are, people aren't going to try to stall in order to get a ruling based win/draw in the event of a timeout rather than just try and win the match. But I need some rules in place, just in case. And i'd rather not have rulings come down to gut feelings if I can help it. If you get ruled against for 'slow play' when you were innocent, just because I was trying to keep the tournament moving, it will leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth. Goal is to make sure everyone enjoys themselves as much as possible.

2 Screenshots would show one turn of slow play. How many turns of slow play does one have to commit before it's considered 'stalling'. 3-4 turns? So I have to ask people to take 6-8 screenshots, upload them somewhere, view them, then make a ruling, all in the middle of a time-constricted tournament?

What happens if they just take 1:30 turns? 1:20 turns?

I wish I didn't sound like I was calling your feedback bad. I appreciate everything everyone's said so far. Just trying to nail down if there's a more fair way to handle stalling/drawn out matches on a timetable, without resorting to arbitrary measures.

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2015, 08:11:50 AM »
I've finished my preliminary ruleset for the tournament. Obviously dates, times, and other values are still in progress. Hell it's all a work in progress. But I have a basic timeline and format to work with. If there's anything blatantly wrong with what i've got so far, i'd appreciate any more feedback.

Quote
One Night Tournament - XX/XX/XXX
 
I'll be attempting to run a tournament on XX/XX/XXX. I've got two goals in mind for this tournament, firstly to gain some experience running tournaments (since this will be my first), secondly to investigate how quickly a tournament can be completed in one day/night (because mutli-day tournaments always seem to drag out over weeks). This tournament will only encompass the first 5 rounds. The last 1-2 rounds, aka Finals will be conducted at a time of the finalists choosing, to reduce the one-day time commitment for the tournament.
 
WHAT:
This will be a double elimination, best of 3 tournament, capped at 8 players.
 
WHEN:
XX/XX/XXXX XPM EST / ?? IWT until XPM EST / ?? IWT
 
 
ENTRY:
Entry is limited to players on the top 100 ranked leaderboard, or players with a Platinum border around their portrait (for players who haven't played ranked this season). Entry will be opened to other players on XX/XX if slots are still available. This is in the hopes of keeping the tournament competitive.
 
There is no entry fee.
 
Brackets will be handled by Challonge. I'll be handling the brackets personally, so you won't need an account, but you will need to visit the website to stay upto date on the brackets.
 
RULES:
All decks used must only used Ranked Legal cards, with the following addition BANNED cards
 
Wealthy Noble IS BANNED
Shrine to the Heavens is BANNED
 
If you accidently begin a game with a deck with a banned card, you will be expected to concede the first game and sideboard out any banned cards for the subsequent two games. I've chosen this over simply restarting the match to prevent players from adding banned cards to their decks to get a 'sneak peek' at the opponents commanders and getting a free sideboard round/deck change before the best of 3 starts.
 
All rounds will be best of 3, with no deck swapping between games.
 
Players are free to change decks inbetween rounds.
 
Players are not allowed to intentionally stall games. If you feel your opponent is intentionally wasting time and you will not be able to complete your round on time, let me know well in advance. While stall decks are not banned, you are expected to be able to play your round to completion in the given time limit.
 
You will be expected to begin your rounds before the specified time. Any player who is not ready while his opponent is, will be given a loss for that round.
 
If a player disconnects mid-match and fails to reconnect, they will be given a loss for that game, restart the match and concede the necessary number of games to replicate the proper score of the game and continue (if a winner has not been decided at that point). If a player is offline for longer than 10 minutes, they will be given a loss for that round.
 
In the event of a desync/game crashing bug, players will restart the match and concede the necessary number of games to replicate the previous score of the game, and continue playing
 
If 2 players fail to complete their round on time, I will decide the winner based on whether I feel a player was intentionally stalling, board state, witchcraft, chicken bones or a coin flip. The intention of the tournament is to not allow it to drag out, replaying games or waiting for the match to finish will not be an option.
 
In the event of a best of 3 draw, both players will play a sudden death best of 1 game to determine the winner. Decks may be changed for this game. If there is not sufficient time for a rematch, a coin will be flipped to decide the winner.
 
Any intentional use of bugs or exploits will be met with immediate disqualification.
 
TIMELINE:
 
3:45 : Check in starts.
3:55 : Anyone who has not checked in by this point will be replaced with alternates if possible
4:00 : Brackets will be locked in, players notified
4:05 : Round 1 cut off time. Rounds MUST be started before this time. Any player not ready will be given a loss for that round
5:05 : Round 1 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
5:10 : Round 2 beginning cut off time
5:55 : Round 2 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
6:00 : Round 3 beginning cut off time
6:45 : Round 3 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
6:50 : Round 4 beginning cut off time
7:35 : Round 4 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
7:40 : Round 5 beginning cut off time
8:25 : Round 5 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
8:30 : Finalists decided, tournament ends for the day.
 
Round 1 is 60 minutes intentionally, with the hope rounds will complete early and the extra time can be used to have longer rounds as necessary later in the tournament. There will be no time extensions for the round deadlines.
 
If the players in the finals so choose, they can continue the final one two rounds immediately following the end of the tournament. If one player cannot continue, the two players will work out a time and date to finish the finals. I've chosen to do it this way, because 4 1/2 - 5 hours feels enough, and any delays on the finals only impacts 2 people, rather than the entire tournament. I personally may not be available to attend the finals when they are conducted.
 
Players are HEAVILY encouraged to complete their rounds well before the cut off time where possible, and begin their next round. 45 minutes per match, with 5 min to get in touch with your opponent should be more than enough for most matches. We'd all like to finish and go home as soon as possible, and going ahead of schedule i'm sure will be appreciated by all players.
 
Players may take a break between rounds if they have sufficient time before their next round must begin. Anyone taking excessive breaks/waiting till the last minute to begin their round will not be tolerated and disqualified.
 
Rewards:
1st Place: 3 Booster Packs of your choosing
2nd Place: 2 Booster Pack of your choosing
3rd Place: 1 Booster Pack of your choosing
4th Place: 1 Booster Pack of your choosing

Offline Spuzm

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 12:57:21 PM »
1. I like that Wealthy Noble is banned.
2. I like that you can change decks between rounds.
3. Make a rule regarding bugs. What happens if 2 players encounter a bug that gives 1 player a massive advantage? (Unless I missed it)
4. It looks good! Only problem: You will get waaaaay more people wanting to get in than 8. Will it be 1st come 1st serve? Invite, then open-entry?

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2015, 01:24:11 PM »
Wealthy Noble adds nothing to competitive play, so really I don't want it.

Merlin and Sakuya were both groaning over Shrine, so I figured it might be more interesting sans Shrine. Maybe it's premature or overstepping. Ban lists shouldn't really be about opinions.

3. Make a rule regarding bugs. What happens if 2 players encounter a bug that gives 1 player a massive advantage? (Unless I missed it)

I'm not aware of any bugs like that short of desyncs. I guess there could be, but I dunno.

'Any intentional use of bugs or exploits will be met with immediate disqualification.' is the closest rule to covering that.

4. It looks good! Only problem: You will get waaaaay more people wanting to get in than 8. Will it be 1st come 1st serve? Invite, then open-entry?

The lock on the top 100 was when the draft was looking at 16 players. I figured I wouldn't get 16 people available on one night interested unless the lock was larger. In hindsight for a smaller tournament, it might need to be a top 20 lock, into top 100 lock, into open signups or something. Problem with completely open signups with no entry fee is you run the risk of flooding the tournament with 7 newbies and MerlinX.

But yeah, figured first come first serve (provided they were on top 100 ranked) would work.

I reduced it down to 8, mostly over time concerns. Managing 8 players, is a lot less work than 16. In addition, i'm REALLY worried 5 mins between rounds might not be enough. I'd like to up it to 10 for safety, but I really don't want to turn it into an 8 hour tournament. First really just needs to be a test run for times/gauging interest.

But yeah, after I posted it I realised that the Entry section needs more clarification, as I was intending to do it first come first serve with posts to the Tournament topic... I just forgot to add it. Also the timeline and rules seem a little mixed...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 01:32:03 PM by Rethorian »

Offline Spuzm

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2015, 02:27:02 PM »
I'm speaking from experience for the bugs one.

For example: What would be the ruling if the Evolving Parasite + Caretaker of the Young token bug were to happen. It is a moderate bug that causes the SOA player to get an 8/10 instead of a 4/4.

Stuff like that. Where it is not intentional, but gives the player a potentially game winning advantage. There's 2 routes: Just say "Play the game as is, if a bug happens, too bad", or make a case by case judgement call (Very time consuming and players have to suspend their games).
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 02:30:41 PM by Spuzm »

Offline Spuzm

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2015, 02:28:56 PM »
I'm not saying this is terribly common, but you should probably cover all your bases just to make sure. It's better to have a rule you don't need than have a situation where there is no rule.

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2015, 11:07:54 PM »
If anyone was curious where i've gotten with this:

Sunday is the easiest day for me to run a tournament (aka Monday Morning my time in Australia). If I run one, it'll probably be Sunday Afternoon/Night.

I chose not to do anything this week because I thought it was Easter Weekend (I am an idiot).

I can't do anything next weekend because it actually is Easter Weekend.

I may not do anything the weekend after that, because I am a coward and fear failure, but that's basically the soonest I can try.

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2015, 07:46:33 AM »
An update on my progress:

My work schedule is too volatile at the moment to guarantee I get a day off when I want to do this. I thought things would go back to normal sooner at work, but for the forseeable future I can't guarentee I'll have a complete day off to handle this with any certainty without basically lying to my boss the reason I need a specific day off (I don't think she's that keen on video games).

Rather than wait, I'm planning on trying to run a smaller scale single elimination tournament (probably 8 people) which will either be run on Australian morning's or evenings (aka before or after work), and hoping enough people are interested at that time slot, just so I can get some experience doing this ASAP. Gotta do some math on which time would be best by checking timezones before I pick when to try and run.

Just thought i'd give a head up for anyone who was actually interested in this, I haven't forgotten or given up yet.

Offline HeliosAFlame

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2015, 10:45:25 AM »
I had forgotten about this.

That said I am interested in any tourneys going around.
Give me a heads up if you want a high level player for one of the tourneys :).

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2015, 09:06:07 AM »
Yeah... I sorta forgot about this this time (and was contemplating quitting the game). But if there was a time to get a practice tournament in, now would probably be it! Assuming that Oppression creates an interesting meta, and that there will be changes in the meta as players explore it, tournaments shortly following the release of Oppression are likely to be the most interesting.

Anyway, here's my planned tournament ruleset/plan:

Quote
One Night Tournament - June 7th
 
I'll be attempting to run a tournament on June 7th. I've got two goals in mind for this tournament, firstly to gain some experience running tournaments (since this will be my first), secondly to investigate how quickly a tournament can be completed in one day/night (because mutli-day tournaments always seem to drag out over weeks).
 
WHAT:
This will be a single elimination, best of 3 tournament, capped at 16 players.
 
WHEN:
7th of June, 6PM EST / 10PM IWT until 9:40PM EST / 1:40AM IWT
 
 
ENTRY:
Entry is limited to players on the top 100 ranked leaderboard. Entry will be opened to other players on the 5th of June if slots are still available. This is in the hopes of keeping the tournament competitive.

If more than 16 players sign up, the rest will be placed on a waiting list.
 
There is no entry fee.
 
Brackets will be handled by Challonge. Entrants will need a Challonge account. Sign ups will be handled in THIS FORUM POST.

Post on THIS THREAD with:
    -Your Infinity Wars User Name
    -Your Challonge User Name
    -Your Ranked Leaderboard status (aka, are you on the top 100 list)

Players who sign up without a ranked placing before June 5th will not be added to the tournament until that time (or the waiting list, if the tournament is full by that date).

As soon as i’ve confirmed your ranked status, you will be sent an invitation to the tournament on Challonge (or placed on it’s waiting list).

Entry is First Come, First Serve. If you are not in the top 100, still sign up as soon as possible. Invites will go out to Non-Top 100 people in the order they signed up in. The earlier you sign up (even if it doesnt count till June 5th), the higher your chance of getting in.
 
RULES:
Games will be a Best of 3 match.

All decks used must only used Ranked Legal cards. This means Oppression, Omni and Star Trek cards are banned. If you can’t queue into Ranked with the deck, it’s not legal.

Players are expected to use their own initiative and use Challonge to keep upto date on when your next opponent is ready. While i'll do everything I can to keep players informed, I am only one person.

Match wins can either be reported on Challonge, or you can message me and i'll update it manually. Players are expected to report their wins and losses as soon as possible, in case your opponent contests the outcome.

If you win a game, please take a screenshot of your win screen, and have a method ready to upload it if your opponent contests your win. If I have no evidence you won a game, I may have to use a coin flip to decide a winner.

If you accidently begin a game with a deck with a banned card, you will be expected to concede the first game and sideboard out any banned cards for the subsequent two games. I've chosen this over simply restarting the match to prevent players from adding banned cards to their decks to get a 'sneak peek' at the opponents commanders and getting a free sideboard round/deck change before the best of 3 starts.

If you accidently begin a game with a banned commander, you will be given a loss for the entire round.
 
All rounds will be best of 3, with no deck swapping between games.
 
Players are free to change decks inbetween rounds.
 
Players are not allowed to intentionally stall games. If you feel your opponent is intentionally wasting time and you will not be able to complete your round on time, let me know well in advance. While stall decks are not banned, you are expected to be able to play your round to completion in the given time limit.
 
You will be expected to begin your rounds before the specified time. If a player is not ready 5 minutes after the specified time, they will be given a loss for the first game. If they are still not ready 10 minutes after the specified time, they will be given a loss for the match.
 
If a player disconnects mid-match and fails to reconnect, they will be given a loss for that game, players will restart the match and concede the necessary number of games to replicate the proper score of the match and continue (if a winner has not been decided at that point). If a player is offline for longer than 10 minutes, they will be given a loss for that round.
 
In the event of a desync/game crashing bug, players will restart the match and concede the necessary number of games to replicate the previous score of the match, and continue playing
 
If 2 players fail to complete their round on time, I will decide the winner based on whether I feel a player was intentionally stalling, board state, witchcraft, chicken bones or a coin flip. The intention of the tournament is to not allow it to drag out, replaying games or waiting for the match to finish will not be an option.
 
In the event of a best of 3 draw, both players will play a best of 1 game to determine the winner. Decks may be changed for this game. If there is not sufficient time for a rematch, a coin will be flipped to decide the winner.
 
Any intentional use of bugs or exploits will be met with immediate disqualification.
 
Any and all issues that should arise should be taken up with Rethorian as soon as possible.

TIMELINE:

ALL TIMES WILL USE IWT FROM NOW ON. IWT can be found in game, by mousing over the clock. It is identical to GMT.
 
Again this is IWT. Not any other timezone. Please, do not get confused.

9:00PM : Check in starts.
9:55PM : Anyone who has not checked in by this point will be replaced with alternates if possible
10:00PM : Brackets will be locked in, players notified
10:05PM : Round 1 cut off time. Rounds MUST be started before this time.
11:05PM : Round 1 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
11:10PM : Round 2 beginning cut off time
11:55PM : Round 2 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
12:00AM : Round 3 beginning cut off time
12:45AM : Round 3 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
12:50AM : Round 4 beginning cut off time
1:35AM : Round 4 Matches must be completed by this time and results posted.
1:40AM : Winner decided, tournament ends, prizes are distributed.

If all goes well, the tournament should end MUCH earlier than the timeline predicts, but all participants should be ready to play as late as 1:40 IWT.

Players are HEAVILY encouraged to complete their rounds well before the cut off time where possible, and begin their next round. 45 minutes per match, with 5 min to get in touch with your opponent should be more than enough for most matches. We'd all like to finish and go home as soon as possible, and going ahead of schedule i'm sure will be appreciated by all players.
 
Round 1 is 60 minutes intentionally, with the hope rounds will complete early and the extra time can be used to have longer rounds as necessary later in the tournament. There will be no time extensions for the round deadlines.
 
Players may take a break between rounds if they have sufficient time before their next round must begin. Anyone taking excessive breaks/waiting till the last minute to begin their round will not be tolerated and thus disqualified.
 
Rewards:
1st Place: 3 Booster Packs of your choosing
2nd Place: 2 Booster Pack of your choosing
3rd-8th Place: 1 Booster Pack of your choosing

You only have to win one match and you'll win something! Yes, this includes Pre-order Oppression Boosters!


In the event I have to cancel the tournament for any reason, i’ll give the 16 participants 1 Booster each as an apology.


Right now, my concern is exactly what start time I need to go with, and whether my sign up procedure is too complicated. It's complicated, but I can't think of a better way to filter out newbies.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 12:49:11 PM by Rethorian »

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2015, 12:58:42 PM »
Haven't read the whole thing yet (though I would almost certainly try to attend) but isn't oppression not out on the 7th of June?

Oppression isnt out till the 13th I think. This will hopefully be a trial run prior to Oppression. Unless I wrote something in the post that says Oppression is out already? Because the Oppression banlist is because of the starter deck Oppression cards.

Offline HeliosAFlame

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2015, 01:01:36 PM »
I deleted my post because I misunderstood. You said at the top that oppression might create an interesting meta so I thought this was meant to be an oppression tourney. My bad.

Also I have now read it all

Usernamer: HeliosAFlame
Challonge: HeliosAFlame
rank: 4 last time I checked.

Can I enter plz ^_^.

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Questions about Same-Day tournaments
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2015, 01:10:40 PM »
I'm gonna post the real post in a few hours. Aka, around the same time the tournament will run next week. Seems like the best time to get exposure. The people online then, are the most likely to be online next week at the same time.

As i said, I haven't quite decided on the time. I mean, unless someone tells me it's a really bad time I don't see a reason to change. It's all like 8 or 9 AM for me, shifting it a few hours one way or another changes little for me, I just have no ideas what timezones fit best.

EDIT:

I've heard Teremus MAY be running his top 16 Pauper tournament on the same day. I'm holding off any announcements till I hear back from him and get the all clear. Apologies for the inconvienience.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 03:07:59 PM by Rethorian »