Author Topic: An Order Review - Genesis Industries  (Read 2410 times)

Offline Rethorian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« on: March 27, 2015, 04:07:32 PM »
I'm going to be looking over all the cards in Order, and judging them based on how good I feel they are. Overall I felt Order was a very weak set, and I want to point out the cards I think failed the most, and why. I'll be giving each card one of five judgements:

Quote
Borderline Overpowered - This card is extremely powerful. Basically, any buff to a card in this category would drive it into Overpowered status easily. I don't think powerful cards are a bad thing in card games, in the right circumstance, so being in this category is not a call to nerf it.

Excellent - This card is just straight up good at what it's designed to do. When compared to other similar cards, this one is overall better most of the time

Average - This card is average. Compared to other similar cards, it's nothing special. It may just be a niche card, or competing for a slot against a straight up better card.

Poor - This card... sucks. Whatever it does, is not justified by the opportunity cost.

Complete Garbage - A card that gains this title should never have left the design room. How it survived any longer than 5 seconds after anyone had seen the card's final form is a mystery left to the ages.

The 'Suggested Changes' section will contain possible changes based on two factors:
1. How much could you improve this card without making it overpowered (aka, how crap is it if you can double it's stats without making OP)
2. Are there any changes that will make the card overall more interesting to play/play against

None of the suggested changes are things I feel NEED to happen, just things that would be better if it was changed, at least in my opinion.

Today, we'll be going over the Genesis Industries Order Cards. Let's begin!

Cottontail VX 1600

Opinion:
Not good enough. I can't help but compare it to the preview version, which read approximately as Pay 2: Deal 4 damage to target character on the battlefield. This ability may be activated upto 2 times per turn.

So there's two ways to look at this card. As a Commander - Not good enough. The Tinkerer/Drone/Splitter command setup is just better. 3 cost, for 4 damage is completely useless early game. There's no incentive to have this as a commander.

As a card in deck - Costs too much. a 7 cost 15/15 is just not what wins Genesis games. 4 cost Lucca/Splitter Robots. 5 Cost Scouting Missions. 5 Cost Laser Cannons. These cards win games. By the time you can afford to use the activate ability of this card, multiple activations probably arent worth it. Genesis has a LOT of ways to spend spare resources. This card is not a good one.

Suggested Changes:
Pay 2: Deal 4 damage to target character on the battlefield. This ability may be activated upto 2 times per turn

Really, I can't imagine this being OP. It trades the offense/defense of the Splitter/Drone command combo, for a possible field nuke that may not kill something. For slower, techier versions of Genesis (like Lanstead), I think that's an interesting way to shake up the normal command options.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Complete Garbage

Drone

Opinion:
Average.

Suggested Changes:
Average.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Average

Genesis Battlesuit

Opinion:
Genesis has lacked good 3 drop cards for a long time. I can't call this card exceptional or anything, but it's an artificial, gets buffed by Lucca, has reasonable stats.

I've rarely gotten much use out of the activate effect. In general, more robots is better for genesis, than one big robot. But it's come in handy creating a 15/15 scouting drone.

I feel like the activate effect was meant to be used in decks that splash 1 Genesis. The cost benefit doesnt seem to be there, especially compared to support drone, so it hasnt been picked up by bionic decks.

Suggested Changes:
None. Seems fine as is.

FINAL JUDGEMENT:Excellent

Genesis Researcher

Opinion:
Garbage. Artifact heavy decks simply don't work. The artifacts that do work, don't require ramp to be effective.

It's 2/4. Like, really? Couldnt even manage 2/5?

Suggested Changes:
Make it a 6/6. The sky won't fall if the card isn't a complete pushover.

If you don't want to buff it's stats, make it artificial. Means you can get some use out of sacrificing it or buffing it with Lucca. Even then, still crap.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Complete Garbage

Genesis Spy

Opinion:
Doesn't find a good home in Genesis. I mean I like the idea of the card... but it's hard to get it working in a genesis deck. Splashing other factions only reduces the number you can run in command.

Not quite good enough.

Suggested Changes:
For every Misinformation card in your opponents hand, Genesis Spy gains +2/+2.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Average

Mecha Dragon

Opinion:
Same problem as most other dragons and high cost cards. Simply too slow, too often a dead draw, and it's rather difficult to find a turn you can spend 10 resources on a single card. Completely useless VS Calamity.

I tried running it as an Anti-Verore card, but it was just deadweight too often.

Suggested Changes:
Cost Reduction basically. Genesis can make this dragon as big as it wants, whenever it wants. Lets trade off some stats for a smaller body, and smaller cost. Still probably won't see much play, but 10 is just too much.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Poor

Overcharged Bot

Opinion:
I'd rather run a empty tin of baked beans as an artificial than this card. The 4 cost slot for Genesis is just too competitive. And also, this card completely sucks.

8/8 for 4 is crap. Removing cards from your hand is just silly. Genesis can buff any and everything. They are the buff faction. If you need a big robot, do not waste your time on this card.

Even if you get a big robot by discarding your entire hand... big vanilla cards suck. This card cannot fly, it does not have unstoppable, and is one Death Ray away from making you regret ever running this card.

This card belongs in the scrap heap.

Suggested Changes:
Make it a 3 cost card. Buff the buff to +4/+4 per card, possibly. If it's a 3 cost, at least it might see some play as a Vanilla Artificial.  Being able to buff it may come up as useful. Base stats may need to be a little toned down if it goes to 3 cost. 2 Cost 10/10 Drone, followed by 3 cost 11/11 Overcharged Bot, followed by Splitter Robot might be a little too much pressure.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Complete Garbage

Symbiote Prototype

Opinion:
Why did it have to be 4 cost? Cool card, cool effect, can't play it because it competes with Splitter Robot. There's also no way to temporarily disable the Untouchable aspect to buff it with stuff.

Suggested Changes:
Make it a 3 cost card. Reduce the stats to compensate.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Average

EMP Grenade

Opinion:
Talk about situational? And even in the situation of a Genesis mirror... do I really want to run EMP grenade? I guess... but is it worth a sideboard slot? No.

Best case is trying to combo it with Mechanize for a 2 card combo. But then you're effectively only dealing 6 damage to the main target anyway. I'd rather use Laser Cannons.

Suggested Changes:
Can't think of much. Make it remove the Artifical tag from anything it hits? I guess that makes it a counter Genesis card. Maybe make it reset artificals to base stats as well?

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Poor

Mechanize

Opinion:
Solid card. Not a great choice for Triple Genesis, but great for splash decks or Bionic decks.

It's just good. Not great or gamebreaking. Just good.

Suggested Changes:
None. Fine as is. Don't know what you'd want to change about it

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Excellent

Defensive Perimeter

Opinion:
Lets call it what it is. An Anti-Flame Dawn card. I mean, it has synergy against Sleepers and Overseers as well I guess.

Main problem is, that Flame Dawn has Noble Protector. Genesis has very few tools to deal with a Noble Protector, short of CTA. So I question how great this card can really be.

To play it, you have to give up something. Since early genesis turns are usually stuck in stone, you have to somehow get a lot of value out of this card. I don't see it happening enough.

It's been suggested to me that because it has no unique tag, it has a use in stacking 3 and firing 3 at once. I don't think betting on drawing 3 of this, before an aggresive decks runs you over is a valid strategy.

Suggested Changes:
Card seems fine as is. If something had to change, i'd say it would be Noble Protector.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Average

Omnimind

Opinion:
Awesome card! This is a card that says 'You run Triple Genesis. Be rewarded. Crush them'. It's just all around fun to use.

It's a low tempo card, so getting Omnimind rolling can take some time, which is a bad thing if your opponent is pushing tempo.

But it has so many combos and interesting interactions. I love it!

Suggested Changes:
Add Overmind (Starcraft) flavor text to the card. Do it. Do it now.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Borderline Overpowered

Orion's Grave

Opinion:
Merlin said it best. I'll just quote him and leave it at that.
I would like to use a little math for a second.

Orion's Grave costs 3 resources and has a max resource penalty of 1. So right off the bat it effectively costs at least 4 resources.

In order for you to 'break even' on this card you need to play at least 4 cards with a cost reduction.

This is a little misleading though - because the max resource reduction effectively counts as one resource spent, every turn, for the rest of the game. In order to break even on Orion's Grave you need to incur enough additional advantage from using it to offset what is a rather large disadvantage.

Now let's examine when it comes into play. Turn 3. Turn 3 is typically a really big turn in this game. It is when Kali hits the board from FD, or cartographer from shrine. It is the turn that 4 drops can come out off the back of a wealthy noble. If you spend your turn 3 dropping Orion's Grave, while your opponent is dropping a high impact creature, you might be having some issues playing catch up the rest of the game.

Keep in mind also - Orion's Grave nets no actual benefit unless you play multiple cards per turn. With Grave or without Splitter still hits on turn 4, scouting mission on 5, and etc.

This isn't to say that Grave is a horribad card that should never be played - I am sure it can be quite potent in the correct deck, but at this time I would recommend against playing it as a rule of thumb because the risks associated outweigh the potential benefit.

Suggested Changes:
It should allow you to drop genesis card costs to 0. 0 Cost support drones or Mechanizes are not going to destroy the meta.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Poor




Are you looking for the card 'Research'? Sorry, you'll find that card in the Verore Review thread when it goes up.



And that concludes my Genesis Industries Order review. The final tally of all 13 cards stands at:

Borderline Overpowered - 1
Excellent -  2
Average - 4
Poor - 3
Complete Garbage - 3

Stay tuned, as I intend on completing all the factions when I find the time.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 11:52:20 PM by Rethorian »

wham

  • Guest
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 05:26:02 PM »
I find overcharged bot quite potent against control, actually. If you're playing out a 17/17 or whatever on turn 4 it's pretty huge. If you leave it in support for a couple turns or give it an angelify, suddenly you are 1/5 of the way towards winning, and your opponent has just lost so much tempo from missing all their control.

I'd probably rate it as poor rather than complete garbage.

Offline Logadd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 07:43:55 PM »
I heavily disagree on omnimind. It's way too slow to be relevant as buff tool, only relevant as artifact production against slow(stall) decks and shieldgen combo is situational and still vulnerable to finishers while you wasting resources on drones. Also you have to play it on off-priority since if your opponent will remove it you will suffer heavily on tempo. I would rate it average to poor, and not in any case borderline OP.
I also disagree on few other things, but that's probably the biggest one.

Offline Rethorian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 10:42:19 PM »
Omnimind does exactly what it sets out to do. Won't win every game, but neither does Omnitron. If your opponents lets you, it will let you steam roll them if it's out long enough. Not enough decks run artifact removal for me to to consider it a downside.


I don't see a way to buff Omnimind without making it overpowered. If you can't buff it without making it overpowered, then it meets the criteria set for Borderline Overpowered. But maybe you can argue Omnimind needs a buff. Would love to hear that argument.

Perhaps it deserves an Excellent rating instead, but I never said I wasn't going to be biased in my reviews.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 10:54:03 PM by Rethorian »

Offline zekses

  • Translator
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 01:44:02 AM »
Cottontail could benefit from hitting command/support zone for half/two-third damage. 4 on support is definitely OP, but 2-3 for 3 might be interesting.

I already posted my thoughts on the spy, I think he should be reworked to deal no damage but his abilities be more interesting.

Mecha dragon assessment I disagree with. It is actually a good card with useful ability. Situationally good, but good nevertheless. It comes with protection from exact reason big creatures are not very useful in the game - it can't be easily removed.

Overcharged bot, I honestly don't see why it removes from the game instead of discarding. That way it would be an ideal Exiles combo card. As it is - utter garbage.

Symbiote should probably be able to consume the artifacts(probably even enemy artifacts) for big buffs. As it is - I completely agree with your evaluation.

EMP/mechanize - you are spending TWO CARDS to deal 24 damage. Laser cannon uses one to deal 15 and does not need staging.  Simply not cost effective. On its own  EMP is complete and utter junk not even worth sideboarding. I'd just rename it to "static noise" and let it silence stuff for 1 turn instead of damaging.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 01:56:31 AM by zekses »

Offline Heaven-Canceler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 418
  • Travelling worlds out of fascination.
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 09:04:46 AM »
Overcharged bot, I honestly don't see why it removes from the game instead of discarding. That way it would be an ideal Exiles combo card. As it is - utter garbage.

Apparently they tested it and found it too strong a Combo with Exiles if you discard stuff. So they used removal from Game instead since it has no synergy with anything as of now. Maybe they will add something to synerge with the Angels in the future since apparently they are going for a removal + healing theme?

Other accounts of mine can be found on Spacebattles and Sufficient Velocity.

Offline RitterOhnePferd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 10:23:17 AM »
I disagree a little bit on the Genesis Researcher.

He is all about his passive, as a character itself he is indeed quite bad. So making him a 2/5 would greatly improve his usefulness.

His usefullness however is limited to artifact heavy decks. If you play with two in command you could drop all the 1 and 2 cost artifacts in the first round, which means you could play a warmachine as well as a defensive perimeter in the first round (even in addition to a supp drone/noble) or go with just one in command and play only one artifact. This is of course a bit risky since you don't always have the best starting hand.

Using him in the deck itself you'd need to play three artifacts to get something more than a 2/4 out of the deal, and even then a noble would probably be more useful.

I like the idea of genesis - being one of the slower factions - to have something that goes in the direction of Brings Life by Passing, without simply copying it. It is a niche card for artifact heavy decks that want to get omnitron out as fast as possible.

Thus I'd rate the card poor and not garbage.

Offline Rethorian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 10:33:56 AM »
'Well the card is fine if you get in a 7 card combo that you can only play with 17 resources' is not a good defense for a card. Cards need to be good nearly all the time. There are simply too many good cards, to waste deck space on extremely situational low pay off cards.

You could run 2 Researchers in command. And by turn 3, if you got the right cards, you could drop 3 Mechanisms and 2 War Machines and 2 Defensive Perimiters for free!

In the mean time there's a Kali, Paladin of the Flame Dawn and Torch Bearer destroying your life total, and you've done absolutely nothing that can prevent that in 3 whole turns.

Artifact Heavy decks do not work. All viable forms of Omnitron currently, do not run heavy artifacts. They run generic Robot Aggro, with a generic robot aggro command setup, and generic robot aggro cards in deck, with a handful of decent Artifacts which are in no way a win condition for the deck. And if you manage to get out Omnitron, well that's great too. But it's never the main goal of the deck.

Heavy Artifact decks lose too much tempo, and do not get Omnitron out fast enough to not simply die because you wasted all your tempo on crap like Luftkrieg.

The card is garbage. You cannot play this card. There are so many better options. His best case scenario, still makes him beyond mediocre.

Offline Interesting_Socks

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2015, 09:27:23 PM »
These reviews are great!



Drone

Opinion:
Average.

Suggested Changes:
Average.

FINAL JUDGEMENT: Average



My favorite example ^ On point and funny.

Offline Jelle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 05:50:47 PM »
Very unfortunate that genesis spy isn't all that useful, I like the idea behind the card and it could give genesis a breath of fresh air. I've been  thinking about how he might be more useful, dunno what  you think.

Genesis Spy
2 cost 5 morale
5 5
When Genesis Spy hits the fortress, he places two Misinformation cards in your opponents hand. Misinformation costs 4, cannot be discarded and does nothing.

Effectively reducing the opponents max hand size every time he gets an attack through, at least until they spend resources to get rid of misinformation.

Numbers probably need tweaking, but you get the idea.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 05:53:53 PM by Jelle »

Offline CommunistMountain

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 942
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2015, 09:29:39 AM »
Genesis Spy
2 cost 5 morale
5 5
When Genesis Spy hits the fortress, he places two Misinformation cards in your opponents hand. Misinformation costs 4, cannot be discarded and does nothing.
In my opinion, your suggestion is too overpowered.

Offline Jelle

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2015, 10:04:33 AM »
Genesis Spy
2 cost 5 morale
5 5
When Genesis Spy hits the fortress, he places two Misinformation cards in your opponents hand. Misinformation costs 4, cannot be discarded and does nothing.
In my opinion, your suggestion is too overpowered.
You're probably right. The cost could stand to go down to 3 or even 2.

Hmm what if Genesis Spy instead drew a card from the opponents deck whenever he hits the fortress. Though I suppose that could technically be a flat out better than Greedy Ransacker.

Maybe we can continue the espionage  theme and give Genesis a Surveillance Drone kind of character with a built in infiltration, showing which card the owner draws each turn. That would be funny.  :P
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:07:40 AM by Jelle »

Offline goobypls

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2015, 02:32:23 PM »
Maybe we can continue the espionage theme and give Genesis a Surveillance Drone kind of character with a built in infiltration, showing which card the owner draws each turn. That would be funny.  :P

I like this idea. The opponent could simply be forced to play with the top card of his deck revealed.

That would also be a cool theme for an assassin class for DoD, to be combo'd with infiltrate to puffy puffy up in the opponent's support zone, like he sneaked into their base to rip their Wealthy Nobles and such. d:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 06:09:02 PM by goobypls »

Offline JSlayerXero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 577
    • View Profile
Re: An Order Review - Genesis Industries
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 03:10:32 AM »
Maybe we can continue the espionage theme and give Genesis a Surveillance Drone kind of character with a built in infiltration, showing which card the owner draws each turn. That would be funny.  :P

I like this idea. The opponent could simply be forced to play with the top card of his deck revealed.

That would also be a cool theme for an assassin class for DoD, to be combo'd with infiltrate to puffy puffy up in the opponent's support zone, like he sneaked into their base to rip their Wealthy Nobles and such. d:

Isn't that, like, just asking for Shirazius to slice up his allies, but without the raw body an built-in infiltration? I do like the idea of the Spy revealing the stuff its owner has. Just be wary of throwing him into a sacrifice deck. Alternatively you could try having him reduce resources while he's over there. Be interesting to see an anti-ramp card in this game.
Despite preferring to go by Xero, it's not frequently the part of my name people latch on to. Oh well. I deal with it.