Author Topic: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?  (Read 3061 times)

Offline Interesting_Socks

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Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« on: March 01, 2015, 06:15:10 PM »
I don't have a problem with Omnitron being super good late game. I like the fact that you're put on a timer against certain decks. However stall needs a way to deal with it. The whole aim of a stall deck is to get to the late game and there is no point in getting there when Omnitron exists.

Omnitron produces 2 10/10s each turn and gives everything +5/+5. If you can stem the tide you're facing two 15/15s each turn and they have a cost of 1 moral! It makes it impossible to win against. It's almost to the point of power where it might as well say "deploy Omnitron and you win the game".

I enjoy playing stall, but Omnitron is really annoying. Going into turn 1 and knowing that you have lost, with no chance, at all, of winning. No body wants to play that game. I understand that stall is actually an anti metagame strategy and therefore will always be weak to certain strategies, but loosing on turn1 to one card is not right.

The answer is simple, just increase the moral cost of the tokens to a reasonable number for what is effectively a 15/15. Then Stall can make a game of it, while the effectiveness of the card against other decks isn't damaged.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 07:51:05 PM by 182jaja182 »

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 11:23:05 PM »
As I understand it, Lightmare's goal is to have games take on average around 9 turns to end. Omnitron typically is not a turn 9 play. If you feel you're playing against a deck running Omnitron, the goal is to try and win before it can come out.

If your complaint is that it's annoying having a hard counter to your decktype (stall), welcome to Infinity Wars. There are plenty of hard counter matchups in the game, FD vs Verore used to be like a 90/10 match, DoD Morale VS Sleepers is another, and i'm sure there's plenty more I can't think of off the top of my head.

I don't see why pointing out this one specific bad matchup is any worse than other hard counters.

Not all decks are going to be viable in the meta. That said, I won't lose sleep over stall decks not being in the meta, triple verore and mill were enough stall for one lifetime.

Offline Interesting_Socks

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 11:57:11 PM »
Because its not a matchup problem. Its 1 card winning the game.

Bad matchups are fine, factions are meant to have advantages and disadvantages. But with a bad matchup you always have a chance to win, an opportunity to punish your opponents mistskes.

Omnitron vs stall is not like this. Omnitron single handedly wins the matchup every time.

Offline HeliosAFlame

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 12:25:39 AM »
Omnitron is more of a match up than a card.

You can't just jam omnitron in a random deck because you hate stall.

Offline Interesting_Socks

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 12:39:15 AM »
Fair point

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 02:08:21 AM »
You really can, all you need is omnimind to back it up.

Just spam mechanisms once your opponent has less pressure than you.

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 03:07:49 AM »
You really can, all you need is omnimind to back it up.

Just spam mechanisms once your opponent has less pressure than you.

Yeah, all you need to do is outplay your opponent, steal tempo from him, then proceed to waste 15-20 resources on Omnimind while your opponent STILL fails to take tempo back, and only THEN do you get a free win.

Easy.

wham

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 03:46:30 AM »
Maybe you forgot we were talking about stall decks here.

It's not very difficult when your opponent is only attacking you with a couple glorious warriors and the occasional descension dragon, or is not attacking you at all and trying to chain lingbao and removal together. All while playing the faction with the highest resistance to control, excluding perhaps SoA. If you've already pumped to calamity to remove some of their more annoying creatures, you play out a wealthy noble with two mechanisms, or just take your time.

That said I do see many people running orion's grave, which would make getting it out much easier.

edit: too tired
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 03:51:10 AM by wham »

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2015, 04:17:17 AM »
In an ideal world, all decks would be equal and we'd pick factions based on flavor and win purely based on skill.

In Infinity Wars though, some decks suck, some decks have hard counters and some are completely forced out the meta. Do I like the idea that some decks simply can't win some games? No. But what we're normally left with, is not 'Is every deck viable in the meta?' but 'Do we have a healthy and diverse meta?'.

So the questions are:

Do we have a healthy meta at the moment?
Is stall an important enough playstyle that it needs to be meta-viable?
Would changing Omnitron lead to a more diverse/balanced/interesting meta?

Otherwise it feels like a witchhunt. Why not pick on Grave Rob for making triple sleepers extremely weak VS Sideboard? Or Calamity VS DoD? Or Tygurgh VS control?

Lightmare does not change cards lightly, if they ever choose to change them. I don't see a strong enough argument here to bring Lightmare's wrath down on the card.

Offline Abyss

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 06:06:13 AM »
Realistically, I think that rather than changing Omnitron, they need to a) introduce playable answers to it, b) not make those answers in factions that are already top tier, and c) provide alternatives win conditions for other late game decks.

To me, this seems to be more an issue that most 'stall' decks have limited ways to win late game. Omnitron is basically the same thing, it's just that 'Genesis stall' has a strong win condition and other factions don't.

The secondary issue being the lack of ways to deal with it, but that seems to be a problem with the game in general - too much focus on characters/abilities, not enough focus on locations/artifacts. Then when there actually is artifacts worth playing, there's not much you can do about them.

Offline Clearbeard

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2015, 06:39:47 PM »
Actually reading the OP completely and closely, I 100% agree with your suggestion on how to fix Omnitron.  Boosting the morale costs of its tokens, and loads of other cards' tokens while we're at it, is very much needed.  If all you want is to change that 10/10 flyer from 1 to 3 or even 4 morale cost and you'll be happy with Omnitron, you'll get no argument here.  After all, even the Omnimind might get discouraged enough to give up the fight if loads of its supposedly unbeatable swarm of mechanical minions are destroyed turn after turn after turn.

Offline Angel-

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 09:10:36 PM »
Just Remove Shield from it. It would still be good and easily answered post side board.

Offline Benionin

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 09:43:17 PM »
Speaking of token morale...
The Hellmouth creates two 6/6 tokens for 6 resources that have flying and a morale cost of something like 5.
Omnitron makes two 10/10 flying tokens every turn for free that get bigger every turn for free and have a morale cost of what, 1?
I realize that Omnitron is a great deal more difficult to bring out than The Hellmouth, but something fishy appears to be going on here.

Meanwhile, Corrupt Machinery remains the best counter to Omnitron.
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Offline Grinnin_Gin

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 12:24:36 AM »
I think the problem is less Omnitron's power, but how efficient the rest of Genesis is, and how well it can hold out at all points of the game until you can dump an Omnitron on the field. I do think that maybe as a nerf, if Omnitron was hit with removal, perhaps it cant generate tokens for a turn or two? As a sort of 'disruption', as well as making artifact removal meaningful in that match up.

Offline Hacker

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Re: Omnitron - Does anyone else have a problem with this card?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2015, 01:55:36 AM »
Speaking of token morale...
The Hellmouth creates two 6/6 tokens for 6 resources that have flying and a morale cost of something like 5.
Omnitron makes two 10/10 flying tokens every turn for free that get bigger every turn for free and have a morale cost of what, 1?
I realize that Omnitron is a great deal more difficult to bring out than The Hellmouth, but something fishy appears to be going on here.

Meanwhile, Corrupt Machinery remains the best counter to Omnitron.

Keep in mind that hellmouth is a 6 point play and verore has an arsenale of defensive power behind it unlike any other faction.

Anyway looking at one card unless it is dominating the game is silly. If any card needs a counter it is Shrine to the heavens, my reason for saying this is that it is for the most part a completely uninteractive deck on the battlefield.

And as far as stall goes, if you don't want to play characters which the game is based upon and just play abilities plus, then your getting what you chose. I hope that I never see mill style decks return to a point of prominence in this game, it is a boring play style. Like a little girl sitting on the other side of the fence not showing her face but throwing stones.
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