Author Topic: Sacrifice inconsistency  (Read 968 times)

Offline Held

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Sacrifice inconsistency
« on: December 20, 2014, 05:55:43 PM »
Hi
One can call it bug or just inconsistency:
I wondered what technically happens upon sacrifice.
In the "Infinity Wars: Rules Glossary (v 0.91)" http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=14563.0 it says:
Sacrifice: A card is moved to the graveyard when this effect is applied to it. This effect does not count as "killing, dying or destroying" the card and does not check Invincibility, Resolve or Morale Damage upon resolving the effect.

Regarding that a sacrified character does not "die". Consequently Tormented Thrall mustn't transform by sacrificing him e.g. with Rita.
If we do not follow the above mentioned definition of sacrifice and say that it is a death (not a kill) without moral loss (what I prefer), Fiery Resolve has to garantee protection from Wholesale Slaughter.
Note: Paladin would not be protected as far as he only is immune to non-damage kills.
I haven't looked for other inconsistencies with the meaning of sacfices but I can think that there are more.


P.S.: Is this the right place to discuss that? There are only so few posts in this part of the forum.
P.P.S.: Is this topic sth. to discuss anyway or should I simply report it?

« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 06:55:30 PM by Held »

Offline Sabwa

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Re: Sacrifice inconsistency
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 08:35:52 PM »
Firstly I think this is an appropriate place for this discussion and if something ever seems like it's unintended it's worth reporting.

Secondly this has been confusing to me for a long time. Sacrifice isn't (or shouldn't) be counted as a kill, which is why we don't see death worshipers get stronger when the opposing player sacrifices characters. However on-death abilities are activated after being sacrificed such as the thrall you mentioned, splitterbot, battlefield scavenger and so on. There may be a difference in a 'kill' and a 'death'? A sacrifice puts a unit to death but is not a kill? I'm just guessing, even though the definition of a kill is to put to death  ::)

But it's probably the square vs rectangle argument. A killed unit is a dead unit but a dead unit wasn't necessarily killed.

I think these interactions are intended but something needs to make this less confusing. I think a change in the text or an addition to the tutorial could better solve this confusion.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 08:38:39 PM by Sabwa »
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Offline Clearbeard

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Re: Sacrifice inconsistency
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 03:01:14 AM »
The way I understand how it's supposed to work is exactly like your square vs. rectangle example.  There is more than one way to die, with sacrifice and kill being the main two.  So Splitter bot et al triggering on sacrifice is working as intended.  Similarly all the cards that specify "if it were to die to a non-sacrifice effect" are working as intended (e.g. Ao Shun).  However there are still a number of cases where the intention is not clear and/or the distinction is not applied consistently.  Aberion's vs. Grotesque Brute's invulnerability for instance.  Or both of the DoD Avatars, which do not make the same distinction Ao Shun does and, by card text, should NOT go to the grave on sacrifice but still do.

All that said, supposedly they're working on ironing out all of these issues and will hopefully have them properly implemented and consistent with the new client expected in 2015.

Offline Roderick

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Re: Sacrifice inconsistency
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 05:33:09 AM »
i posted this earlier, but sacrifice should always get past indestructable. Take for example magic the gathering. if you sacrifice a darksteel colossus it dies, regardless of being indestructable.
if you made indestructable negate sacrifice certain deck types such as bionic pally might become overpowered, or not function altogether.