Author Topic: Tormented brute  (Read 2317 times)

Offline Caberman

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Tormented brute
« on: December 20, 2014, 05:08:58 PM »
So yeah, this card is pretty much bonkers, run 2 in command with rita, turn 2&3 10/10s. If you're lucky you get the other ones in your deck early on as well, deal ~40 damage early on and then just stall until you draw enough direct damage spells to win.
I personally don't think verore needed that early boost, and if we see TA nerfed I'd love to see at least some changes to this. I could imagine the text being changed to non-sacrifice effects instead, making it still viable to run into mass deaths etc, but giving verore better early creatures than genesis etc seems just silly to me.

Besides, just compare it to candits thrall. Higher stats, works on any own kill and what would you rather have, a card or a free 10/10? mhm.

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Offline Heaven-Canceler

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 05:37:38 PM »
Honestly, there are enough spells that can destroy stuff in Verore, ranging from Lightning Bolt to the new Overcharged spells (Especially storm since it hits everything and takes out defenders.) that this wouldn't have much of an effect. Maybe make it so that it can only be Sacrificed if it is deployed? That way no easy command guys.

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Offline HeliosAFlame

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 06:26:08 PM »
I would agree that if lightmare wanted verore to trade off early game creature power for their later utility then these thralls are a bit much.
Then again if they are nerfed into oblivion the only thing left is rubble golem which limits all 2+cov decks into a pretty boring stall aoe game plan.

Tormented thrall needs a tweak, but so do other early options to open up cov command possiblities/

Offline Pixelei

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 06:33:52 PM »
Honestly, I don't feel like they're too much. It gives 3CoV a new way to play other than relying on just oblivion. We'll see how it develops as time goes on, but at the moment, I'm just happy CoV finally has some decent command options, even if TA's have been nerfed.

And as for Candit's Thralls, don't be too quick to cast them aside. An extra card in a CoV Deck is a very valuable resource.

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 07:15:48 PM »
When placed in command, candit's thrall is already much worse than battlefield scavenger.

Offline Abyss

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 10:37:33 PM »
Wow, did not realize Brute triggers off character effects. I'd assumed it was only Ability cards. Are they actually 'character abilities'? Because that seems rather confusing if so. Is it a bug, and they're only meant to trigger off Ability cards?

To me, they're fine if you have to play a card to get their effect - there's an actual payment involved. Being able to trigger them off character sac effects (particularly in command) is silly.

I'll say that Verore getting better characters is actually a good thing in the end - might make it so they're less '100% control all the time'. But this looks to be on the level of GI for a faction that shouldn't be that strong early game.


Offline PeliKan

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2014, 12:23:39 PM »
Maybe the solution would be to add Rita, Shadow Priestess
Pay 1: Sacrifice a character you control: Rita heals 5 health.

Honestly, there are enough spells that can destroy stuff in Verore, ranging from Lightning Bolt to the new Overcharged spells (Especially storm since it hits everything and takes out defenders.).

But what with others faction ? Are you think  that CoV is only playable faction ?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 09:24:54 PM by BossPL »

Offline Heaven-Canceler

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2014, 02:09:06 PM »
Honestly, there are enough spells that can destroy stuff in Verore, ranging from Lightning Bolt to the new Overcharged spells (Especially storm since it hits everything and takes out defenders.).

But what with others faction ? Are you think  that CoV is only playable faction ?

I just meant that Verore has more than enough cheap damage or killing spells that taking away the sacrifice ability would only slow down the Tormented Brute play a little. Just fill your deck with a full set of Blood Arrows and you have cheap sacrifice + Bonus stuff too. Add Rita, Lightning Bolt and AoE damage of various types and stuff like that.

Other factions, not sure. Genesis has Cannon Fire with which you can hit 2 at once. Warpath has fight where you can make them fight each other.^^ DoD has Yuanshi for surprise 10/10 with Damage. Exiles... not sure if Mark would work since characters dying is a side-effect of their health falling to 0. Wholesale Slaughter could be an amusing Combo though if it works. Flame Dawn has Commando. And Sleepers... Poison or Acid Rain if it works? Using Eaten by Zombies would be way to expensive for a 10/10 that costs 8. No clue if the OS Banish works, but 4 cost for one 10/10 is still a bit too much.

Edit: I just remembered that you cannot make your own characters fight each other. Eh, not sure what Warpath could use then.

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wham

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2014, 08:55:12 PM »
Edit: I just remembered that you cannot make your own characters fight each other. Eh, not sure what Warpath could use then.
Hermit or guard
dunno if guard would work

Vertu Honagan

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2014, 02:52:17 AM »
Sure, in a triple CoV deck this may not be much of a problem. But you have to remember that this combo can also be used in 2CoV/FD decks. Allowing a player to early rush with FD while combo-ing the Rita/Thrall Sac combo to create 2 cost 10/10s that can only help increase the power of the Flame Dawn rush.

Offline stranger42

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2014, 05:45:48 AM »
To be fair, if you intend to use the Rita sac from command, you pretty much have only one of those 10/10s, given that you have to use Rita, Brute and a FD commander to make the deck. Another option would be to use FD commandos to kill the brutes off easily, but I don't think it would be worth it.

Vertu Honagan

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2014, 01:46:35 PM »
To be fair, if you intend to use the Rita sac from command, you pretty much have only one of those 10/10s, given that you have to use Rita, Brute and a FD commander to make the deck. Another option would be to use FD commandos to kill the brutes off easily, but I don't think it would be worth it.

FD only has 7 attack drops for turn 2 with this card it now ups that to a 10/10 rather than a 7/7 or a 7/4 with charge. Even though you would be running the deck without Sacculus, you have a faster speed and more control to help maintain the field/clear up the field for your units to get through.

wham

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2014, 05:55:04 AM »
I'm going to point out here that rita/splitter/brute commands are seeing some use.

Offline WWKnight

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2014, 08:03:39 AM »
This is just bad design, and shows that IW doesnt know how their own game works.  First of all, this card is one of my designs.  It was intended to only be killed by ABILITY cards.

Secondly, sacrificing a character is a cost, its not "dying to an ability".  It shouldn't trigger off that. Or if it does (it shouldnt), it at least shouldnt give whatever sacrificed it the bonus its meant to get (which it does).

The 10/10 is a replacement effect, so the sacrifice cost was never met.

This card is just breaking so many rules, I can't even...
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Offline CubicBerserker

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Re: Tormented brute
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2014, 06:54:26 PM »
This is just bad design, and shows that IW doesnt know how their own game works.  First of all, this card is one of my designs.  It was intended to only be killed by ABILITY cards.

Secondly, sacrificing a character is a cost, its not "dying to an ability".  It shouldn't trigger off that. Or if it does (it shouldnt), it at least shouldnt give whatever sacrificed it the bonus its meant to get (which it does).

The 10/10 is a replacement effect, so the sacrifice cost was never met.

This card is just breaking so many rules, I can't even...

And if you mechanize it you can sacrifice it to Secluded Constructor! Transform it and give a character +11/+11!

Technically, sacrifice counts as dying. So going purely by wording it is working correctly. I would argue though that the wording should have been "when it is killed by an ability you control", which would have prevented him from working off sacrifice effects.

Running them into Mass Death is still a thing even with that restriction. I don't see why Verore of all factions should be able to get two 10/10's out by turn three, with resources to spare for lightning blasts or nobles.