Author Topic: Fairness of the Auto-concede  (Read 17669 times)

Offline Shimrra3

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #180 on: November 24, 2014, 09:01:29 AM »
What about a new game mode : The blind game.
Basically, instead of seeing your opponent's commanders, you would only see purity icons (like in the deck builder), and you would start your game having your commanders greyed (not usable).
To use your commanders (or their abilities), you would have to pay their cost first (like a normal summon) to ungrey them. Once ungreyed, a commander would also be revealed to your opponent, and be useable as a normal commander.
That would tame down (a little) the power of commanders, reduce (maybe) the instant conceding by not showing what exactly the deck is about right away, and bring some (interesting?) mind game for the same reason.

I actually quite like the blind mode concept posted above, although possibly for different reasons. I swear Teremus was going to make a section on the forums for mode ideas but I can't find it at all...

Possibly exhaust them to 'ungrey' them.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 09:03:10 AM by Shimrra3 »
Quote from: Teremus
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Offline Adorabear

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #181 on: November 24, 2014, 09:24:38 AM »
Good post Rototo. Also realised that there isnt really a place for people to suggest fun game modes so you inspired me to make a thread in the suggestions forum for it :)
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Offline Rawonall

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #182 on: November 24, 2014, 11:34:13 AM »
Rototo made some very good points.
About Adorabear's example of somebody behaving in a completely illogical and disruptive way, I think it represents a limit case, not much close to the average.
Anyway, if such a person who just plays when he has a definite advantage over the opponent exists (and he must really be stupid to do so, because farming other players is obscenely inefficient if he cares about IP/Exp), then we have no weapons to use against him without harming the majority of "legitimate" quitters.
What we could do is to split the non-competitive rooms in two different places - true random, where you get a 5 minutes penalty time during which you cannot join any game whenever you quit for two consecutive times, and casual, where you DON'T play random opponents but instead create a game with a description, people can see your commanders and try to join your game, and you can see theirs and allow them to join your game or kick them out. Faster and much more satisfying than random pairing, although it would need a good amount of developer's work.

Offline DrayGon777

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #183 on: November 24, 2014, 12:11:39 PM »
I recall that there used to be a thread complaining about conceding because of people wanting to see the opponent explode. It was a while ago and is now buried in this thread, but that complaint did end up showing up, just as a bit of a history lesson. Another bit of history is that there also used to be a list of matches of people waiting for someone to play against which listed the game type and speed (back when speed modes were in the game). Didn't say anything about commanders, however, but if they had it before, it might be possible to put it back in, though I forget why they took it out beyond one of the UI updates.

Rarely fails though. Usually ends up being a few people doing something negative that ends up affecting everyone else, whether by their actions, or by having to implement something to prevent or discourage their actions. :P
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 12:13:10 PM by DrayGon777 »
Just so you guys know, if you're ever vs WWK, just start putting out random numbers and mathematical symbols, he will surrender.

Offline Shimrra3

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #184 on: November 24, 2014, 12:17:29 PM »
On a vaguely related note (and here because this thread has attention and I cbf making one myself right now), the way we get IP/EXP needs to be reworked. The public knowledge that this caps at the five minute mark leads to some adverse behaviors (which ARE relevant to the thread), including but not limited to the following: conceding immediately vs certain decks thought to be slower (DoD and/or Verore come to mind), conceding after the five minutes is up, playing dead for the first few minutes for the sole (and largely irrational) purpose of bumping up the time, etc.

The first of my examples is probably the most important one - certain decks and/or factions just take longer to do anything useful with. Some people don't want to play against them because they drag the match out, creating both a boring AND an inefficient match, the latter referring to lost potential IP/EXP past the five minute mark. On the other side of things, some people don't want to use the decks themselves for the same reasons, PLUS the possibility of causing people to concede quickly or rage at them or similar.

My main idea is to have IP/EXP gains start to slow down after the first few minutes rather than cap. Something like 150IP for the first five and 75 or 50IP for the next five and so on (with comparable amounts for EXP). It could either scale down linearly or just plateau at something like 5 or 10IP per extra minute. Its not as efficient as two back-to-back five minute matches, and not even worth trying to abuse, but its way better if you're the DoD player who needs an entire 20 minutes to finish a match.

Giving players a meaningful incentive to play longer matches also helps alleviate the long queue times some of us have to put up with, and could be a step towards removing some of the auto-concessions under discussion. People can play decks that take longer if they're being forced to sit in longer queues, and the people they get matched with won't immediately leave the game because of it. People can identify their opponent's deck as an Exile/DoD/Cov stall deck and say 'well this will take forever but at least it will get a decent amount of IP' - rather than 'no way am I sitting in here for 15 minutes to get 150IP when I could concede and queue for two matches vs faster decks'.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 12:20:51 PM by Shimrra3 »
Quote from: Teremus
YOU WANT BALANCE? I'LL MAKE EVERY CARD IN THE GAME VIZZERDRIX

Quote
"That was the worst driving of all time!"
"Because that wasn't driving! That was flying and burning!"

Offline Joca

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #185 on: November 24, 2014, 03:27:48 PM »

I already told this at Steam forum in a similar topic but can repeat here. Maybe at some point this system should be extended a bit. When one of the players has conceded, he should be replaced by a bot or at least his turns should be auto-ended for his opponent instead of just finish the match. It isn't a perfect solution but at least it gives to his opponent a possibility to have a full-time match for a better reward.

Guys, TL;DR, BUT!!!! I skimmed a few pages and didn't see anyone in favor of this amazing idea. Like wut m8? Diz iz perty gud sorushun 2 probrem. It could even be implemented to maybe perhaps stop desync issues? Soooo vote yes on this, yeah? ;D
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Offline Luthielle

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #186 on: November 27, 2014, 08:29:54 PM »
Concede is perfectly normal in ranked. It's like in all competition. You don't want to do it, just concede.
However in normal play, people come to have fun or try something. I can understand that some decks are frustrating to play against, but just play and improve.

This evening I've played in normal, 5 times in a row against FD rush. It was a nightmare for me, but still I managed to grab a victory and I was happy.
"Loosing in a game is not the end of the world, but the beginning of a new journey." Luthielle 2014.

Offline FeiLing

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #187 on: November 27, 2014, 09:28:50 PM »
Auto-Concedes probably stop being a problem (as in: you won't care any more) once you don't have to queue for a game for more than 20 seconds.
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Offline ecliptix

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #188 on: December 18, 2014, 08:37:55 PM »
There are some situations in which I can and do auto-concede and it has nothing to do with whether or not I think I will win - that's a non factor for me because apparently I'm weird like that. You know what I auto-concede against? Cookie cutter netdecks, especially ones which take more time to get through.

I've read through these posts and I'm absolutely stunned that the "Playing the same(ish) deck 9 times in one session is boring even if your winning" thing hasn't even come up. I mean yeah other games have cookie cutter issues, but for the most part tend to be more than 1v1. In 1v1 repetition tends to be substantially more prominent.

The best comparison I can make is that it would be like going to a friend's house to has 10 times as many cards as you and you just built 5 new decks to play but he'll only let you test against his uber-competitive tourney deck - I had a friend like that in college, after the 7th straight game of playing the same MtG deck we agreed that to remain friends we had to find other ways to hang out.

Win or lose ask yourself, how many games you would play with that friend? My guess would be not many. Auto-conceding to me is like telling someone, dude I've been playing against this all day and I'm really not interested in playing it again. Now lets go do something else, cause this is getting boring.

The real solution to this is a more efficient queue.
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Offline DrayGon777

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Re: Fairness of the Auto-concede
« Reply #189 on: December 18, 2014, 08:41:38 PM »
Or to stop posting decks online so there's no netdecking. >.>

...I think the queue thing might be easier to manage. XD
Just so you guys know, if you're ever vs WWK, just start putting out random numbers and mathematical symbols, he will surrender.