Author Topic: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn  (Read 1714 times)

Offline Deadguy

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Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« on: October 08, 2014, 05:11:06 AM »
Legionnaire of Dawn is a vanilla 9/5 for 3. From the same faction, Arial Commando is an 8/6 with flying for 3, Flame Dawn Purifier is an 8/8 who exiles everyone she defeats for 3, and Vicious Ransacker is an 8/4 who hits everyone in the support zone for 3 whenever he successfully attacks the fortress, also for 3 mana. Every other 3 mana card Flame Dawn has is better than Legionnaire of Dawn. There is no reason anyone would ever use him. Klingon Warrior is a 9/8 for 3, and he's unlimited, so somewhere around there might be a nice place to start. Maybe with a bit of an attack skew because he's FD, not Klingon.

Offline Abyss

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 06:17:00 AM »
He already has an attack skew. He's the only one of those characters you mentioned that can naturally trade with almost every 3 drop (The exceptions being stuff like Defense Golem). He really doesn't need to have a higher attack just because he's FD.

Comparing him to the Klingon Warrior doesn't really work, as that's a very limited faction with a very limited character base. The characters need to do different things.

If they did change him, IMO all he needs is 6 defense (so he doesn't trade with most two drops) and maybe drop his morale cost (It's already low, but they could tie him in with Vanguard Knight). He sure as hell doesn't need to be a 9/8.

Offline Mafia_Puppet

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 07:01:15 AM »
He already has an attack skew. He's the only one of those characters you mentioned that can naturally trade with almost every 3 drop (The exceptions being stuff like Defense Golem). He really doesn't need to have a higher attack just because he's FD.

Comparing him to the Klingon Warrior doesn't really work, as that's a very limited faction with a very limited character base. The characters need to do different things.

If they did change him, IMO all he needs is 6 defense (so he doesn't trade with most two drops) and maybe drop his morale cost (It's already low, but they could tie him in with Vanguard Knight). He sure as hell doesn't need to be a 9/8.

Exactly what three drops can he trade with Ariel Commando cannot trade with?

Exactly what two drops do exactly 5 damage?

Reality check: the base damage of a 2-drop is 6. If you want Legionnaire to eat a 2-drop, he needs to have at least 7 life. The average stat line of a 3-drop is 8/8. Legionnaire sacrifices 3 life for 1 damage. Ariel sacrifices 2 life for flying. Kali sacrifices having another on the board for 2 damage and 5 immolate. If you're going to say things, at least say smart things.

This is IW logic: flying is worth 2 life. 1 damage is worth 3 life. Flying is worth less than 1 damage. Therefore, all OS should have flying. It gives them an interesting theme without giving them any significant advantage.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 07:22:44 AM by Mafia_Puppet »

Offline CommunistMountain

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 12:50:59 PM »
This is IW logic: flying is worth 2 life. 1 damage is worth 3 life. Flying is worth less than 1 damage.
This is a misconception. I thought I ought to point this out.

Upon experimentation with creation my own cards in tandem with IW's balance, I've noticed that the value of any variable other than hard stats, like Flying, Infect, Subtypes and so on, are factors of the character's stats.

In order to understand this, let's take these variables to their logical extremes. For instance, compare a 2/2 character with Flying or Infect, and a 100/100 character with Flying or Infect. Obviously, the 2/2 character cannot kill much, and is easily dropped by so many abilities that Flying doesn't even matter. The character with 100/100 would utilise these variables better, and thus these variables are worth more in its hands.

Offline stardustdragon258

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 09:15:03 PM »
I think he should be a 9/7
  so far the only time i use him is in rift runs and only if the other choices SUC. the could keep his stats and add on some ability. or make hime a 8/5 with charge... at least any of those would be more playable.


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Offline Mafia_Puppet

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 04:15:10 AM »
This is IW logic: flying is worth 2 life. 1 damage is worth 3 life. Flying is worth less than 1 damage.
This is a misconception. I thought I ought to point this out.

Upon experimentation with creation my own cards in tandem with IW's balance, I've noticed that the value of any variable other than hard stats, like Flying, Infect, Subtypes and so on, are factors of the character's stats.

In order to understand this, let's take these variables to their logical extremes. For instance, compare a 2/2 character with Flying or Infect, and a 100/100 character with Flying or Infect. Obviously, the 2/2 character cannot kill much, and is easily dropped by so many abilities that Flying doesn't even matter. The character with 100/100 would utilise these variables better, and thus these variables are worth more in its hands.

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Offline Deadguy

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 04:28:49 AM »
I think he should be a 9/7
  so far the only time i use him is in rift runs and only if the other choices SUC. the could keep his stats and add on some ability. or make hime a 8/5 with charge... at least any of those would be more playable.

FD has a 7/7 for 2, so that would put 2 attack as being worth 1 mana, which is a tad low. 9/9 is probably more in line with what a limited FD character with no ability should be at 3 mana.

Offline Mafia_Puppet

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 05:01:01 AM »
Yup. Especially since it is limited, it should be stronger than unlimited characters. Similar to how uniques are stronger than limited characters. But 9/9 is not a very interesting stat line, and you gain a lot from 9 life, since that makes your character immune to all damage-based removals except the GI canons. So I'd rather have 9/8 or 10/5 to keep the feeling of FD.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 05:03:43 AM by Mafia_Puppet »

Offline CommunistMountain

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 06:19:27 AM »
I think he should be a 9/7
  so far the only time i use him is in rift runs and only if the other choices SUC. the could keep his stats and add on some ability. or make hime a 8/5 with charge... at least any of those would be more playable.
FD has a 7/7 for 2, so that would put 2 attack as being worth 1 mana, which is a tad low. 9/9 is probably more in line with what a limited FD character with no ability should be at 3 mana.
Actually, in my opinion Knight of the Flame Dawn is an unusually high stat–to–cost character. Not a very good comparison. Then again there aren't many vanilla Humans, so whatever.

Offline Deadguy

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 12:28:23 AM »
I think he should be a 9/7
  so far the only time i use him is in rift runs and only if the other choices SUC. the could keep his stats and add on some ability. or make hime a 8/5 with charge... at least any of those would be more playable.
FD has a 7/7 for 2, so that would put 2 attack as being worth 1 mana, which is a tad low. 9/9 is probably more in line with what a limited FD character with no ability should be at 3 mana.
Actually, in my opinion Knight of the Flame Dawn is an unusually high stat–to–cost character. Not a very good comparison. Then again there aren't many vanilla Humans, so whatever.
He's more or less in line with other FD limited vanillas. +2/3 above Footman for 1 mana, and +0/2 above Knight for 5 morale,

Offline Pixels

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Re: Boost Legionnaire of Dawn
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2014, 02:10:52 AM »
9/8 makes sense. Stats close to Kali's with a little less damage, no abilities, and less morale.