Author Topic: Hitori's Guide For the New Trader!  (Read 45745 times)

Offline Hitori

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Hitori's Guide For the New Trader!
« on: August 21, 2013, 03:49:26 PM »
Hello ladies(?) and gentlemen. I've decided that it is time this game had some general trading guidelines for newcomers, hopefully this will help any and all newbies - and perhaps even some veterans - make the most out of their current collection. First, however, I'll add a short introduction to this guide.

Some of you may be asking yourselves 'why should I trust THIS guy to make up the values for MY cards?' - the answer is, you shouldn't. This guide is made using my own personal values, and until we have an open trading platform with some form of currency to use we each make our own subjective values (we may continue to do so after such a platform is introduced, but then we at least have objective standards to judge it by).

The less serious, and perhaps more offensive, answer is - because I was born into a Jewish family. Yes, you heard it here. Now you know two things:
1. This guide is going to be useful for anyone that's into trading, as 'my people' are good with all forms of exchange
2. You ought to tread carefully when trading with me

Now, on to the guide!


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Section A -  Tier Listing:

This is the tiresome part, I'm going to make a list of all the cards sorted out by TIERS of value (rarity + tier), this should be used as a reference guide. The tiers can and should be judged by your own values, and if you lack specific cards or simply wish to collect specific cards you may place higher value on some of the cards that I didn't think were worth a top-tier mention.

I'm using asterisks (***) to differentiate even further within the tiers themselves, they are nuances but quite relevant to most trades. One asterisk means that the card's standing within the tier listing is relatively low, while a triple asterisk means it is relatively high.

-

There are a few exceptions to the tier system, examples are - Paladin of the Flame Dawn, Demon of Fear & Dark Wish. Those 3 are really sought after and can be considered to be worth beyond their actual rarity level!

(note: all cards are links, mouse-over to see the card, or click them!)

Currently out of date, can still be used for a general idea

Top Tier Legendaries -

***Martyr Golem
**Agent Coyle, Primal Hunter
**Agent Coyle, Immovable
**Agent Coyle, Zomborg

-

Middle Tier Legendaries -

***Evellee, Mage Guild Recruiter
**Agent Coyle, Alpha One
**Agent Coyle, Mechborn
*Tygris, the Architect
**The Defiant Hermit
*Princess Hinekri

-

Bottom Tier Legendaries -

***Agent Coyle, Firestarter


(Note: Firestarter is the only Legendary that you can directly buy in the store, through the 'Collection Starter Pack', thus it is in the bottom tier, but its still a good card as far as play-value goes)


-

Top Tier Epics -

***The Calamity
***Dark Wish
**Vasir, the Chained Prince
*Mega Unit 02
**Prophet Karani
**Hunted Dragon
**Hungry Abomination

-

Middle Tier Epics -

**Call the Warpath
*Mega Unit 03
*Demon of Gluttony
**Subjugated Dragon
*Aberion, the Hammer of Dawn
**Ireul, Vanguard of Ruin
*Dragon of Summer Flame
**Ao Shun, Dragon of Wisdom
*Surprise Defense
**Shrine to the Heavens

-

Bottom Tier Epics -

*Enyah, of the Endless Possibilities
**Hidden By Clouds
***Mega Unit 01
*The Dragon Project
*Bloodbath
***Ju-Lin, Who Rewrites History
**Patient Zero
*The Virus of Avarrach
**Avarrach Has Risen
**Nysrugh the Hungry

-

Top Tier Rares -

***Demon of Fear
**Annihilate
**Mass Death
*Daode, Sage of Strength
**Yuanshi, Sage of Ferocity
*Skraar
*Granthar, the Elder Ape
***Paladin of the Flame Dawn
*Protector of the Dawn
*Angelify
*Recurring Nightmare
*Tome of the Dead
*Devil of Despair
**Cresill the Mad

-

Middle Tier Rares -

*Radariah, the Untouchable
**Jubalia, the Messenger
**Aleta, the Immortal Traveler
***Deflect
*Orion, Master Architect
**Aleta, Immortal Tinkerer
**Aleta, the Immortal Searcher
*Inter-Dimensional Phase Bot
*Unstable Bomb-bot
**Lanstead
**Kali, the Flaming Blade
*Kali, the Purifier
*Bromich, Field Commander
**Lingbao, Sage of Discipline
**Eagle-Eye
*Heaven's Bell
*Matriarch
**Aleta, Immortal Caretaker
**Untapped Wilderness
**Aleta, Immortal Sorceress
**Summoning Stone
**Sinister Corruption
**Aleta, Immortal Sufferer
***Hehkeem, the Corrupted
*Cyber Infested Dragon
*Kyrallic, Origin of the Virus
**Raise Dead

-

Bottom Tier Rares -

***Shikana, Who Demands Tribute
***Cheryl, the Forward Scout
**Varyus, Master of Choice
*Sydern
**Ancient Aether
*Ancient Egg
**Never Forget the Fallen
**Shield Generator
*Mechanism
***Rita, Shadow Priestess
**Grotesque Brute
***The Hellmouth
*Misery Stone
***Pras, the Traitor of Dawn
***Mark 1 'Brimstone' Battle Tank
**Aberion's Banner
**Brimstone
**Pyr, Fortress of the Flame Dawn
***Gao Han, the Stalwart
**Jialan, Guardian of Life
**Shifting Stone
***Great Wall of Jinhai
*Undisturbed Necropolis
**Decrepit Crystal
***Chalice of Madness
**Dehumanize
*Crystal of Madness
**The Demon Wastes




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Section B -  Foil, Platinum, Gold:

Normal card example:


-

Platinum (A.K.A: Beta / Plat) -
Currently it is very hard for me to judge the actual worth of a Platinum border. I believe that it comes down to your perception of collection value versus play value. If you put more emphasis on play value Platinum isn't too much of an issue and you can trade it away quite easily. If, however, you're a collector, these can be invaluable as some of them are near impossible to get (I'm looking at you Demon of Fear!).
Platinum cards are a limited edition, and so far have only been available as part of a pre-order (either of the game itself by supporting it before the closed beta, or by pre-ordering RISE boosters).  Once you missed your chance to pre-order, you can't get a hold of them except by trading - and that's where this guide comes in.
For you collectors out there, I can easily say you should trade whatever you want for a Rare/Epic/Legendary Platinum (especially super Rare ones such as Demon of Fear, Paladin of the Flame Dawn and so on). I can safely say you should treat it as worth 3-5 times more than your normal card of equal value. That, however, is not an actual value since currently I doubt they are worth more than two of the same non-Plat card. I do believe that this value will change once the game goes live (open beta / release) and more players join the community. This will make the Platinum-per-player ratio much lower and thus make them more valuable overall.
For you normal players, or 'play-value traders', I believe you should consider a Platinum to be worth twice as much as the normal card, as you should be able to find someone to trade it for 2 of that same non-Plat card very easily (and possibly gather even 3 without much of a hard time). This, of course, depends on the card and the overall trade, but as a general guideline the minimum worth I attach to Platinum borders is that of 2 non-Plat versions.

Platinum card example:


-


Foil -
To me, personally, a Foil card is worth anywhere between 2-3 of the same 'normal' card. This is more true regarding Commons/Uncommons than it is for Rares+ because the chance to actually get a Rare+ Foil card is pretty damn slim. If you are a collector, these hold more value than they may hold for me (so try and learn just how Rare your specific card is - or what tier of rarity it's at - and combine it with the 3-5 value mentioned above). These are, of course, far more valuable for any collector than they are to someone seeking a play-value card. If you have a good Foil card that people need and you're not a collector I wouldn't hesitate to trade it for the value of 5 times the normal card, this can buy you a lot of play-value very easily if you got lucky with a nice Foil card.


Gold+Foil card example:


-

Gold -
Seeing Gold borders are as Rare as Foil cards are, I would treat them the same. Keep in mind that while a Gold border may be somewhat rare right now, once some time passes by Platinum borders ought to become the more valuable ones and there will be no reason to consider Gold to be worth more than Platinum unless you like the color scheme gold offers better than the platinum. Again, same rules apply as Foil.

-

Foil-Plat / Foil-Gold -
These should be considered extremely Rare, especially the Foil-Plat combo as these are EXTREMELY limited in quantity. Even the Commons and Uncommons that are Foil-plat should be considered with some care as there shouldn't be too many of them in the game (depending how many packs exactly have been pre-ordered from RISE). I can't quite put my own values on these as they are extremely collectible and I am by no means a great collector (I just like to have some pretty cards, not obsessed about it). For the right person these are extremely valuable and should be considered to be worth at least 10 times of the regular version (and even that might be too low for some). Let me just say this right now, if you have a Foil-Plat Legendary, keep that stuff hidden inside your mattress until you simply HAVE to trade it to get some very needed cards (CARDS!! NOT ONE!). I would probably never trade mine, at least not until an Auction House or some form of currency based trade system was introduced so I can see the objective value people place on it.


-------------------------------------------------


Section C - Trading Guidelines:

In this section I'll give you some general guidelines to help make trading easier, but keep in mind (again) that these are guidelines I use personally, they are not absolute by any means and should not be considered as such. I would also like to mention that depending on who you're trading (at least now, with the relatively small community), you may wish to forsake these completely - I often find myself trading with new players and simply give them a few extra cards more than the worth of their offer because they need them and it will barely scratch the surface of my card pool (it still hurts to give away Platinum, but it can't be helped). I don't say this to sound like a 'good guy', I say this because this is how I started the game as well - by getting a few very good trades from veterans - and I think this sort of thing helps develop the community and the game overall, and will come back to you once these new players become veterans and may have a few cards that you need (or they may simply pass it along themselves to the next new player they meet).

So, without further ado, to the guidelines -

1. Inter-Tier Trading:
I always prefer to try and trade within the tier since it makes it much easier to judge value, but since often times this is impossible you will need to know how to judge different tiers of value and keep in mind your own play/collect value and your trade partner's values.
My general guideline is that a top tier card is worth about 1.5 x mid tier card, and 2.5 x bottom tier card of the same rarity. This is not absolute, again, especially not when it comes to Legendary cards (as the top tier is way more valuable than the mid/bottom and CAN be said to be worth 2x mid and 4x bottom perhaps, PERHAPS).

2. Inter-Rarity Trading:
Again I always try and trade within the same rarity, but that is even harder to do than it is to trade within the same tier. My general guideline is that an equal tier Legendary is worth 2-3 Epics, and 3-5 Rares (and an equal tier Epic is worth 2-3 Rares). This varies a lot, cards like Paladin of the Flame Dawn (before RISE was released) could be traded at a 2 for 1 ratio with a Martyr Golem, and some people may even trade them 1 for 1.
You may also ask yourself the value of Uncommons and Commons, and my answer to that is - regardless of the rarity, if you need certain cards and can't get them for 'free' from a friend or a friendly person, you should trade some of your low tier Rares for the Uncommons and Commons you need. Keep in mind you may get Platinum versions which are worth more than the play-value and that alone is an added bonus. A basic guideline to these is 3x Uncommons for a low tier Rare, but these Uncommons better be relatively rare (Xi, Who Honores the Dead comes to mind), otherwise you can ask for 5-10 depending on who you're trading with. Commons are essentially worthless, but if you need them to play a certain deck you have in mind don't hesitate to trade your low-tier Rares for 10-15 Commons you need (don't be greedy though, no one likes greedy traders).

3. Combining Guidelines:
Since most of the time you may find yourself trading inter-tier AND inter-rarity AND inter-versions (Foil/Plat/Gold), you need to know how to combine them together. Keep in mind that the versions mentioned are not worth anymore as far as play-value go, but they do mean a lot for collectors even if you're not one yourself.
I dare say that you can generally take the lower numbers of the ratio that I mentioned above for each trade value, let's say, a Foil is 3x normal, and a top tier Legendary is 3x top tier Rare, and combine them together. So in this example, you're trading a top Foil Legendary for top tier regular Rare. I will easily make a trade for 9-10 of top tier Rares for a Foil Legendary, but that is BEFORE considering the potential trade value these may hold later on when the game grows. This is, again, a very very personal guideline and you SHOULD make up your own guidelines. These are most useful for people who are completely new and got somewhat lucky with a nice Rare pull that may be worth more than they can imagine it does.


-------------------------------------------------


To wrap this up, let me just state again that this guide is not absolute whatsoever. This is a guide to help new players that have absolutely no clue what's the value of the cards they pulled and may only gather it through friends with experience, or trust strangers to be truthful and not try and take advantage of them (you can also take a look at the trade channel in game, or forums, to make up a general value of a card - but I want to believe this guide makes it easier).

Don't come at me later complaining that you traded your Foil-Plat Legendary for 15 top tier Rares and now it's worth 1000$ (hopefully) and your 15 Rares are only worth 150$. This may very well happen, this guide doesn't take the collector's value as the only guideline, it keeps a lot of focus on play value (while keeping in mind the fact that the cards are collectible and should be treated as such).

Feel free to start a discussion regarding trade values here, or simply criticize my values, guidelines or the guide as a whole (BUT LEAVE YOBO ALONE!).

I hope this proves helpful for some, and at the very least does not harm anyone.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 12:34:57 PM by Hitori »
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.


Offline Hitori

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 03:49:53 PM »
<Reserved>
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.


Offline Hitori

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 03:50:04 PM »
<Reserved>
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.


Offline Hitori

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 03:51:15 PM »
Sticky please if you find this worthy.
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.


Offline Kilroy512

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 11:14:02 AM »
Awesome trade guide. Very good for new players looking to get a general feel for the trading environment. I would like to add two things:

1. As a general principle (usually does not apply to the cards listed as "high value") you can try for 2-3 cards of lower quality for 1 card of the next level of quality. (IE: Trade 2-3 rares for 1 epic or 2-3 epics for 1 legendary) Generally speaking the person trading up is looking for 2 and the person trading down is looking for 3. A compromise can usually be reached.

2. If you EVER get a foil platinum rare/epic/legendary, it is worth way more than a few cards to the right buyer. I would make darn certain to get top dollar for anything close to being as rare as this. (also, don't tell me or I will hate you forever)
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Offline KVD

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 11:28:29 AM »
Your tiering is completely out of whack when it comes to GI (save possibly for Tygris).
I'm guessing you don't play the faction.

Offline Kilroy512

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 11:29:57 AM »
Your tiering is completely out of whack when it comes to GI (save possibly for Tygris).
I'm guessing you don't play the faction.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

Nah, he's never touched the faction. :P

[Edit] Keep in mind that these are generally guidelines. Not to be followed to a "T."
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Offline KVD

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 11:40:32 AM »
Got nothing against the trading guide itself, but Mega Unit 02 as a top tier epic? That's pretty funny.

Offline Kilroy512

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 11:43:53 AM »
Mega Unit 02 a well sought after card for most GI players. (3 copies used in one of the deck contenders for GI meta) Admittedly there seem to be a lot of them floating around, but that only matters if you can find a buyer willing to sell low. Once again though, the tier lists are VERY subjective and must be taken with a grain of salt.

[Edit] As a side note, the reason why I found that so funny is that me and Hitori were two of the very few players who actually supported playing GI even when they were terrible as a stand alone faction and I gave him a hard time when he switched his avatar from Tinkerer to Princess. :P
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 11:45:58 AM by Kilroy512 »
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Offline Zinqf

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 11:55:01 AM »
Nice guide. Most every tier placement seems pretty much on point. Can you move Inter-dimensional Phase Bot to mid tier please? I've been wondering why people have been so reluctant to let go of them even with a large excess. Lolz.

Sticky please if you find this worthy.
I vote for Sticky. There currently isn't a sticky in the trading forum either.
Fact - 42.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Offline Kilroy512

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 12:04:30 PM »
Nice guide. Most every tier placement seems pretty much on point. Can you move Inter-dimensional Phase Bot to mid tier please? I've been wondering why people have been so reluctant to let go of them even with a large excess. Lolz.

Sticky please if you find this worthy.
I vote for Sticky. There currently isn't a sticky in the trading forum either.

That's because they are so worth it. GI is finally good! ;D

I also vote for a sticky, btw. 8)
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Offline Erlaya

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 02:11:06 PM »
Due to how subjective trading (The list as I see it would be about 50% different) is and how often the Meta will change as they change cards...I don't think stickying something like this would serve the playerbase in the long run.  I disagree with making this a sticky.

Offline Hitori

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 04:43:01 PM »
I highly appreciate any and all criticism.

The list I made is very much a general guideline rather than an accurate list because there is no accurate list.

The basic principle behind my list, for those wondering, is this:
MetaValue/Rarity -- in this case Rarity stands for how hard it is to actually get and not the 'Rare/Epic/Legendary'.

If you feel like my list ought to change, please make sure to try and validate this by arguments. This is what this thread is for, to try and sum up the trade values of things and help newbies trade easier.

Please, present your arguments for any and all changes (Erlaya/KVD).
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.


Offline Hitori

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 04:49:10 PM »
And if it wasn't clear, here's a more basic explanation, GI specific for you KVD:

-Orion is an amazing card, but rather easy to get as far as trade value goes, it's not a card that you'll need to give 2-3 rares for (like Paladin or Demon of Fear and the likes).

-Angelify is a great win condition that if played right wins you the game without the opponent having much to do about it, still, it's a rather easy to get rare that comes with the faction's starter deck.

-Shield Generator and Lanstead are two great cards, but so far as I'm aware of they were not from the super rare cards within RISE, anyone that has bought a decent amount of pre-orders have a few of these to spare it seems.



If you value a card for its play value, but neglect to account for how hard or easy it is to get, you're not doing a great job judging trade value. I would love to hear your feedback and perhaps change my list, it is not an absolute one.
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.


Offline Hitori

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Re: Hitori's Guide For The New Trader!
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 04:52:06 PM »
And Zin I had second thoughts regarding putting this list up there as well, as it may show more about my values than it would be helpful to newbies, but I decided I'll give it a go.

I can always delete this whole thing if people don't find it useful :)
I conceive that a great part of the miseries of mankind are brought upon them by false estimates they have made of the value of things.