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Infinity Wars => News and Developer Talk => Topic started by: ES [BoD] on December 02, 2016, 09:52:21 PM

Title: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ES [BoD] on December 02, 2016, 09:52:21 PM
Hey guys! I would like to update you on our balance state and what will be our next goal.

With Rebellion’s launch behind us, we will be focusing on older cards, starting from our beloved legends and scaling down to epics and etc.

That being said Rebellion cards are still subject to change if some of them will prove to be OP or toxic.

As far as the legends go, we will only balance/rework cards that are either underwhelming or just need a little push to make them more viable and desirable.

There's nothing more frustrating for a new player to see that gold glow as they open their pack, turn around the card and see an Agent Coyle Ascended  :'(  especially when most new players have limited amount of packs/ip, that in part, was our reason to start with the highest rarity.

I will update you as we move forward ;D
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ORISOLVE on December 02, 2016, 09:57:24 PM
Agent Coyle, Immovable & Liand, The Fearless & Xi, Martyr Of Peace are all underwhelming.  >:(

If you think otherwise, then I suggest both Taiga & Splitters are underwhelming too and need to be stronger.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ES [BoD] on December 02, 2016, 10:02:18 PM
Agent Coyle, Immovable & Liand, The Fearless & Xi, Martyr Of Peace are all underwhelming.  >:(

If you think otherwise, then I suggest both Taiga & Splitters are underwhelming too and need to be stronger.
yes, those are part of the legends we plan to balance, with the exception of Immovable atm.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: P4lm3 on December 02, 2016, 10:15:02 PM
I would honestly welcome immovable that gains +1/1 at the end of turn for free in addition to its current state.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Held on December 02, 2016, 10:25:02 PM
Hi  :)

I may say what cards imo are nearly useless and need to be buffed:

CoV:
Masked Initiate: The new card Angel's bane is a pure improvenment of that.
Void Split: Kill for 5 with negative is much too expensive. Use it on own cards looks for me much too expensive too.

FD:
Bloodbath: Very expensive (and for 3x weak) also because moving opponent chars to defensive is counter the strategy of FD (similar thing with Ireul, but that card is better).

Factionless:
Several characters, but that is nothing new to you I guess.

That are just the cards that should clearly be pushed. There are more cards that are not quite worthy, but you can see it yourself I think  ;)

Greets
Held
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ORISOLVE on December 02, 2016, 10:27:58 PM
Is P4lm3 on the "Balance Team" because he makes good suggestions. Immovable dies to 3 Aspirants, for a 5 drop he's very underwhelming right now especially for a Legendary. Not only that, but 7 attack damage makes him useless compared to Steadfast Protector, Spirit Guard, and Diseased Brute, etc.

Or you could do something like make Immovable deal 2 Morale damage for every hit he takes. Also Firestarter could have like Immolate 10. So many good ideas to improve the Legendaries in the game. I just want justice, consistency, and balance for cards in their individual factions.

"You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime" - Mom's Spaghetti
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: MerliniX on December 03, 2016, 12:01:10 AM
Is P4lm3 on the "Balance Team" because he makes good suggestions. Immovable dies to 3 Aspirants, for a 5 drop he's very underwhelming right now especially for a Legendary. Not only that, but 7 attack damage makes him useless compared to Steadfast Protector, Spirit Guard, and Diseased Brute, etc.

Or you could do something like make Immovable deal 2 Morale damage for every hit he takes. Also Firestarter could have like Immolate 10. So many good ideas to improve the Legendaries in the game. I just want justice, consistency, and balance for cards in their individual factions.

"You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime" - Mom's Spaghetti

Saying Immovable is useless compared to Steadfast Protector makes it really hard to take anything else you say seriously at all.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 03, 2016, 12:54:52 AM
Buff Legionnaire of the Dawn. Many cards are direct upgrades to it, most significantly Kali. I suggest Legionairre of the Dawn do something entirely different by giving it an effect or something.

Make FD Commando cost 2 and buff its stats slightly, maybe 4/4 or even 5/4.

Sightly buff single-target activated damage such as Immortal Sorceress, Mark 1 and Cottontail.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: tmoua805 on December 03, 2016, 01:04:32 AM
Is P4lm3 on the "Balance Team" because he makes good suggestions. Immovable dies to 3 Aspirants, for a 5 drop he's very underwhelming right now especially for a Legendary. Not only that, but 7 attack damage makes him useless compared to Steadfast Protector, Spirit Guard, and Diseased Brute, etc.

Or you could do something like make Immovable deal 2 Morale damage for every hit he takes. Also Firestarter could have like Immolate 10. So many good ideas to improve the Legendaries in the game. I just want justice, consistency, and balance for cards in their individual factions.

"You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
This opportunity comes once in a lifetime" - Mom's Spaghetti

As a fellow DoD protester heres my take on it.
Make steadfast protector 4 cost and swap both steadfast and immovable's stats so we get:
A 4 drop steadfast for 7/12
And a 5 drop immovable for 8/14
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: belial12 on December 03, 2016, 01:27:03 AM
balance old cards? SO PUFFY HYPED!
you guys are doing a great job, I always want to see this happen :D
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Hiding on December 03, 2016, 03:57:06 AM
Renewing the suggestion to allow Burden of Command able to increase the resource cost of any character in play instead of just in command.

Other Suggestions:

-Ascended Coyle should be allowed to smite whoever he pleases. Add- Pay 5: Deal 1 damage to target character on the battlefield. This can only be used if he is deployed.

-Give Dragon of Summer Flame charge and burn stuff in opponents support zone as well. [if it doesnt already]

-Irial needs to not be a champion

-Perhaps redo Firstarter so he doesnt have charge allowing you to make him cheaper and with better stats.

-Perhaps remove charge on Vis and allow her to keep her multistrike buff instead of it just being until end of turn. Or make her cheaper with less stats like 4 for a 0/4 multistrike X.

-Vengful warrior should be simply if he dies to a character, he deals 8 damage to whoever killed him. (Whos this you ask? Its the 2/6 vigilance that transforms into a 8/4 when dealt damage and he survives. Costs 3). Maybe add in if an undead killed him raise him and transform him into an 8/4

-Nerf Humble
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ORISOLVE on December 03, 2016, 06:08:50 AM
Steadfast Protector is superior to Immovable in almost every way without buffs. For example, Steadfast would kill Kali 1v1 while Immovable wouldn't. Steadfast can block a maximum of 4 Aspirants, while Immovable blocks only 3. Steadfast has a lower morale cost than Immovable. Immovable is only sometimes good because it can transform into a dragon. Immovable also sometimes blocks Skaar and Logtron with Hehkeem, but other than that it's bad. Let's not even compare it to Primal Hunter. :P
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: InvertedEye on December 03, 2016, 07:46:56 AM
Steadfast Protector is superior to Immovable in almost every way without buffs. For example, Steadfast would kill Kali 1v1 while Immovable wouldn't. Steadfast can block a maximum of 4 Aspirants, while Immovable blocks only 3. Steadfast has a lower morale cost than Immovable. Immovable is only sometimes good because it can transform into a dragon. Immovable also sometimes blocks Skaar and Logtron with Hehkeem, but other than that it's bad. Let's not even compare it to Primal Hunter. :P
I had my disagreements with some of the people when I was on balance team but lets just say that I am glad you are not on it.  :o
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Dogeee [BoD] on December 03, 2016, 07:50:51 AM
anyway immovable is not even remotely comparable to really bad legends, also i feel youre really underestimaing a blocked skraar, since your non lethal block will deny the next skraar to be played which can be pretty slowing as well as immovable being able to damage 3 characters to combo with wrath which can be game winning in not that few cases imo. also yea if youre playin tons of aspirants immoable is no prob, yuanshi and stuff tho..
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: keyranaway on December 03, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
Reading all balance suggestions made by people like
(http://i.imgur.com/iuY7KEy.gif)
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ORISOLVE on December 03, 2016, 01:39:51 PM
Well let's just say I'm glad I'm not on the Balance Team. None of you guys have played DoD once in your life. The difference between 7 attack and 8 is so huge. Red Tape, Evict, Counterspell, Rapier Fanatic, etc. exists so it's not like DoD has any chance of being viable in the meta in the near future, let's just delete them like the Sleepers and get on with it. Playing "Mill" with DoD doesn't count as playing DoD, so I don't know who you guys are kidding. The majority of the "Balance Team" are rush assault zone players so your bias clearly cannot allow Immovable to kill Kali. Do you seriously want me to combo Immovable with Yuanshi or "Spontaneous Combustion" or even Mad Monk (I think the issue here is with the "Mill" decks not needing a stronger Immovable, so nerf "Mill"), when I can get better results with Spirit Guard alone. Not only that but Martyr Golem exists, do you see how I know you guys have not played DoD even once in your life? Because you don't know how difficult it is to draw a Yuanshi's Wrath in a deck of 40 cards being your only hard removal that can be countered easily by a multitude of cards. I said I'm glad I'm not on the team because if we put this to a vote I'd lose anyways and I'd be wasting my time, similar to how I'm wasting my time now speaking to deaf ears (writing to blind eyes).

Now people who aren't on the "Balance Team" have some good ideas for Immovable, but nope their opinions don't matter as well because Immovable is "fine". All I can say is good luck, I don't look forward to the future meta you guys create and with Ian on your side, I can't even imagine the fun awaiting.  ;D
#playanothergame #FDisdabes
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Hiding on December 03, 2016, 05:07:57 PM
Is there a list of intended balance cards?
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Rawonall on December 03, 2016, 05:44:48 PM
Is there a way to contribute with ideas? It makes sense that only the balance team gets to vote on changes, but no reason they shouldn't consider other players' advice.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ES [BoD] on December 03, 2016, 06:12:08 PM
Is there a way to contribute with ideas? It makes sense that only the balance team gets to vote on changes, but no reason they shouldn't consider other players' advice.
Of course, we will welcome all ideas for balance/rework , we might consider implementing them although I can't promise anything.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ES [BoD] on December 03, 2016, 06:20:58 PM
Is there a list of intended balance cards?
Yes, the cards are: Tygris, Gao Han Champion, Aberion Champion of force, Firestarter, AC Ascended, HellBringer,Princess Hinekri, Vasir the demon Prince, Die another day,Evellee,xi, martyr of peace, Liand,Marina The selfless.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Assamit3 on December 03, 2016, 07:38:35 PM
Regarding the list ES gave i would like to make some sugestions..
Tygris) should read Pay 5 exhaust:Tygris creates an exact copy of a deployed character you control.
Gao Han) stats upgrade to 5/12 while on the defence zone Angels and Humans you control in your support and defence zones take 2 less dmg (that way you exclude spirits but and attack zone but protect humans as well)
Abberion) goes up to 7 mana gains Charge
Firestarter) 8 resources flagbearer ability multistrike 2 8/8
AC Ascended) should be lives 2 after he ascends.... a bigger sol sort of
Hellbringer) make him discard 2 cards not at random (easier to become demon dragon if he fails he can take advantage of the exile mechanic)
Princess Hinekri) up to 6 resources 2purity looses Infect gains: When you deploy Princess Hinekri choose a Character If Hinekri would enter combat with the choosen Character se retreats to the Command Zone and you take control of the chosen Character. (she is Succubus after all ffs)
Vasir the Demon Prince) Unstoppable and Consume 2.
Die Another Day)10 Recources triple purity all morale losses become 0 this turn If you die this turn insted you take no dmg and all characters in both attack zones are killed (you cannot move your character from the attack zone as with mass death)
Evellee) i have no experience with her so i cannot suggest something
Xi martyr of Peace) Make all characters in play 0 attack. Real Peace through mass Disarming
Liand the Fearless) I understand that this card exists to change the classic DoD win condition (morale) to a military faction.... so instead of overcharge cost make it a passive +2/+0 for each turn you dont receive dmg while liand is alive
Marina) make her being able to save martyrs and sacrifice effects....

thnx for reading and sorry for the long post....

Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: InvertedEye on December 03, 2016, 08:37:30 PM
I know Liand isn't exactly a meta defining card(despite what a certain someone says ::)) but does he really need a buff? He has playable stats and a conditional 0 cost +4 attack to assault is nothing to sneeze at.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Number11 on December 03, 2016, 09:40:44 PM
I know Liand isn't exactly a meta defining card(despite what a certain someone says ::)) but does he really need a buff? He has playable stats and a conditional 0 cost +4 attack to assault is nothing to sneeze at.

I agree and we also need to consider how it works with the new cards. For example what if you have a command of Liand, Gao Han and Support drone and you use The Big-anator in deck. Some new decks could be created with him.

I would be glad if Evellee would not ignore the Unique key word on cards when you use her abilities.

I also have an intresting idea for HellBringer. What if he could transform a target character in play into a 1/1 demon, if he targets himself he instead transforms into a 20/20 Flying Unstoppable Demon Dragon. You could change his cost and I am not sure what stats would be best for him.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: P4lm3 on December 03, 2016, 09:51:19 PM
Oh boy,
Tygris: just being able to create 0/0 tokens for Taigas sake (farewell sanity of Orisolve), and maybe after each use base stat for token increases by 1/1 (not being Taiga abusable T_T)

Ac Ascended: each AC that is not dual faction takes and enchants mechanic common to faction or evolves to dragon by not so distant mechanic. AC Ascended doesn't feel like evolving type and could do champion related relief, when deployed champion restriction is increased to 2 (or be more aggressive unit attacking twice fist as flying second as ground unit gaining protective buff (similar to aberion's banner) +7/7, or order vice versa. Biggest concern is to fit most of this text in to card box -_-'

Gao Han: Is champion and could also relieve champion limit or how buffing is theme both in oos and dod, double your buffs while Gao Han is in defense zone (+16/16 strength of leadership)

Aberion Champion of forge: Why would 2 oos 1fd be used over 2fd oos? If this had other things to look for other than huge morale cost, While in assault zone charge units get flying and flying units get charge. This could protect early charge units if played from command on curve, make champion swapping sol have haste and when pulled back in fear of board clear not make flying units played from hand go suicide (shikana, jubalia and cheryl late game Charlies angel's gang)

Fire starter: This guy and Tullio... I thought maybe increase power by 2-4 but its not that simple at all T_T. So effect must be more unique. If AC Fire starter would engage unit that was not deployed at the start of turn, that unit moves to assault zone and attacks after AC Fire starter

AC Hellbringer: there are variations for 2 exile sleeper/dod toxic decks so discarding (*cough, cough) calamity and making it have exile reduction of 3 on curve and removing used card from grave and deck, nope! Bad idea that sucks player interaction to its lowest it has ever been. 2 wp 1 exile Karckk is interesting. Giving 2 and 3 exile comeback in form of AC Hellbringer? Pay extra to increase discards by 2 for each resource and gain effects: 2+ discards, draw card for each discard. 4+ enemy units lose 2/0 for each discard 5+ AC Hellbringer won't transform in to dragon, he instead gains flying and spawns 25/25 unstoppable flying dragon. (Too much text T_T) 

Hinekri: If Hinekri would be killed, you may instead sacrifice your unit that was infected by Hinekri.

Vasir the demon Prince: Opponent units lose morale from sacrificed units (usable in 3p verore, vorasious goliath followed by vasir?)

Die another day: While in hand cost decrease by 2 every time you take 20+ damage.

Evellee: I didn't think my favorite unit need buff o_O +2/0 for recruited units

Xi, Martyr of peace: Heal your fortress full and win game with Dugg you have earned it. Or rather after sacrifice, for rest of the game after your unit dies or is removed from game in battle field, spirit with identical stats moves to another zone and leaves at the end of turn (i have lost my imagination for this one (T^T)

Liand, The fearless: units in defense zone also get +0/4

Marina The selfless:  Aleta effect returning to hand after 4th turn (very original...)



Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Ben4d90 on December 03, 2016, 10:39:47 PM
There are plenty of cards that are currently useless due to being inferior to other cards etc that need buffing or changing to be useful. I would suggest taking a look at all of the cards that would not ever be used competitively and improve/change them to be viable.

At the moment, all you see in ranked is everyone and their mother playing Death Blast. The new cards have not changed the meta whatsoever, as that deck is still top dog and can beat almost any other deck. I saw the suggestion of a 2DoD/1Ex mill deck as a counter to it. Nope. I've beaten such decks with my Death Blast deck thanks to sideboarded cards. Currently, NOTHING can consistently beat Death Blast and I see this as an issue since all it does is reinforce everyone in ranked to use that deck and makes the game boring. I like to run various different decks and it gets really boring when I keep facing the same deck that I can't reliably beat unless I play it myself.

Another thing is that, currently, playing triple purity in just about every faction is always disadvantageous. More cards should be made triple purity to balance out the strength of playing 3p vs splashing into other factions.

Acquire. This puffying card. I'm pretty sure anyone who's played against a deck with this in is pissed about it. Being able to draw 3 of the opponents cards for 4 is redicously OP. Doesn't matter if the cards are useless to you. You can use them for overcharges and such. The fact that it is 1p as well is crazy. Needs to cost more and be 2p.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: belial12 on December 03, 2016, 11:45:52 PM
I don't think anyone has mentioned It yet, but I would want to see nysrugh the hungry buffed, not really sure in what way, but even just changing it to consume 3 would make me happy

nysrugh the insatiable is underpower as well, at least buff him to have consume 1, even that will make me happy.

yeah I'm pretty simple :D
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Adorabear on December 04, 2016, 01:52:37 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned It yet, but I would want to see nysrugh the hungry buffed, not really sure in what way, but even just changing it to consume 3 would make me happy

nysrugh the insatiable is underpower as well, at least buff him to have consume 1, even that will make me happy.

yeah I'm pretty simple :D

We will get to epics after legendaries. And yes I would like to see Nysrugh the insatiable get consume 2, he is currently terribly unplayable.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ecliptix on December 04, 2016, 03:41:53 AM

FD:
Bloodbath: Very expensive (and for 3x weak) also because moving opponent chars to defensive is counter the strategy of FD (similar thing with Ireul, but that card is better).


No - its fi-....Actually it needs to be 2p. Yeah just change that. You'll make it SO balanced.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: ecliptix on December 04, 2016, 05:01:25 AM
Die another Day could use some sort of heal / morale gain mechanic.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: suli on December 04, 2016, 06:20:27 AM
Liand the Fearless) I understand that this card exists to change the classic DoD win condition (morale) to a military faction.... so instead of overcharge cost make it a passive +2/+0 for each turn you dont receive dmg while liand is alive

I like this, it makes him more playable.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Hiding on December 04, 2016, 12:05:28 PM
Tygris- I liked the suggestion allowing him to copy another Artificial character. Not sure what the cost would be though.

Edit: I also like Ranowalls suggestion

Gao Han Champion
- For one I would say remove the champion keyword and reduce the purity. If not, then perhaps give him a deploy effect such as reducing all damage taken by half for a turn [like resolute general], or a flat Health buff maybe. This way you can actually utilize his repeated deploys being a champion.

Aberion Champion of force
- Remove Champion once again. Give him charge maybe. If not, consider an on-deploy effect. Another idea would be play on the "lead the charge" concept buffing characters behind him when he attacks.

Firestarter- Remove charge, decrease cost and he would be quite fine.

AC Ascended- I still like my idea to allow him to smite people. Give him an activated ability allowing him to shoot people on the battlefield, or make another source of damage from him somehow.

HellBringer- If you want discard mechanics his current increase in stats is pretty cool, but allow him to choose what to discard. Then maybe add an optional activate transform. Or have both his current transform and an activate transform.

Princess Hinekri- would Haste be too powerful? If so return her to your hand at end of turn. Maybe reduce cost.

Vasir the demon Prince- Make him cost less and you're fine. make him like a 7 cost, 18/18 or something.

Die another day- Cost less like 4, give it preemptive, then give it a until end of turn Jialian effect where your fortress health cant go under 1.

Evellee- She's fine with certain decks. Just make more interesting cards to use her with.

xi, martyr of peace- Sacrifice: All characters have their attack reduced to 0 for as long as Xi, martyr of peace is in the graveyard. This overrides any buffs like Bromich.

Liand
- I like the increase in attack if you havent taken damage concept. But +1/+0 is enough. Either that or keep the overcharge, but buff everything instead of just attack zone.

Marina The selfless
- Wtf is this card idk what it's supposed to be the end.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Rawonall on December 04, 2016, 03:27:00 PM
Tygris

Cost: 5 Purity: 2 GI, 5/9, morale 12, unique

4, exhaust: Create a 10/10 artificial character in your support zone
2, sacrifice an artifical character: Create an artificial character in your support zone, with power/HP equal to those of the sacrificed character. You may add abilities by spending resources: 2 = Charge; 3 = Flying; 4 = Shield 1; 6 = unstoppable

Gao Han Champion

Cost: 6 Purity: 2OoS, 1 DoD, 3/8, morale 12, unique

Champion, flying, vigilance

Gao han cannot take more than 3 damage from a single source
When a character enters combat with Gao Han, its power is halved (rounded down, permanent effect)

Aberion Champion of force

Cost: 6 Purity: 2OoS, 1 FD, 8/10, morale 15, unique

Champion,Flying

When Aberion attacks, each character with flying or reach your opponent controls is moved to the support zone

AC Firestarter

Cost: 5 Purity: 2 FD , 7/7, morale 12, unique

Multi strike 3
Pay 11 (no exhaust): transforms into a 25/25 unstoppable, flying dragon

AC Ascended

Cost: 2 Purity: 2OoS , 5/5, morale 10, unique

Whenever one of your deployed characters other than AC Ascenced has its power increased by an ability or effect while AC Ascended is deployed, AC Ascended gains +1/+1.
At the beginning of combat, if AC Ascended power is 25 or more, he transforms into a 25/25 flying , unstoppable Angel Dragon


AC HellBringer

Cost: 2 Purity: 2EX , 5/5, morale 10, unique

Whenever you discard a card while AC HellBringer is deployed, AC HellBringer gains +1/+1.
At the beginning of combat, if AC HellBringer power is 20 or more, he transforms into a 20/20 flying , unstoppable Demon Dragon

Princess Hinekri

Cost: 5 Purity: 2EX, 10/10, morale 10, unique

If Princess Hinekri would enter combat with a character with lower power, she retreats and you gain control of that character instead
If Princess Hinekri would enter combat with a character with equal or higher power, she retreats and that character gets -5/-5 instead.

Vasir the demon Prince

Cost: 11 Purity: 1CoV / 1EX, 22/22, morale 15, unique

At the beginning of combat, if Vasir is deployed, destroy all non-demon characters  on the battlefield with less HP than your maximum resources.
If Vasir is targeted by of an ability or an effect with a single target while deployed, that ability or effect targets another random deployed demon instead.

Die another day

Version 1:

Ability, cost 4, purity 3OoS

At the end of turn, if your health and/or morale are zero or less, they are set to 1. Remove DAD from the game.

Version 2:

Ability, cost 4, purity 2OoS

You can't lose the game this turn.

Version 3:

Unique ability, cost 10, purity 2OoS

Your fortress can't take damage and you can't lose morale this turn.

Evellee

Cost: 4 Purity: - , 5/10, morale 12, unique

Pay X +1, Exhaust: Recruit a Character that costs X or less.
Pay 1, Exhaust, remove target deployed Character you control from the game: Recruit a Character that costs X+1 or less , where X is that Character's cost.
Pay X+2, Exhaust: recruit a character that costs X.

xi, martyr of peace

Cost: 10 Purity: 2DoD , 4/10, morale 10, unique

Flying

Sacrifice Xi: All deployed characters with power 3 or more have their power reduced to 3.  This ability can only be used while deployed.

 Liand

Cost: 4 Purity: 2DoD , 10/12, morale 10, unique

Overcharge Once: Each time a character in your defense zone takes damage this turn, all characters you control gain +1/+0 and you gain 1 morale. This ability can only be used once per turn.

Marina The selfless

Cost: 6 Purity - , 2/2, morale 10, unique

At the beginning of combat, Marina's current and maximum hit points are set to 2.
Whenever one of your deployed characters other than Marina dies (not if sacrificed), if Marina is deployed, you don't lose any morale and that character is raised to your support zone, fully healed. Marina gets -1/-1.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: TameRlane on December 04, 2016, 11:18:46 PM
mb this doesn't need to happen but i have a suggestion.... kind of a nerf actually.....

Agent coyle alpha one, or perhaps even mechborn...

As they activate their abilities could it also increase their cost? (mb by 1 or 2 per upgrade?) Other coyles increase cost as they evolve (to dragons) and doing the same with alpha one and mechborn doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

the reason for this is Red Tape ( i know it's already an amazingly rude card) but red taping an upgraded alpha or mechborn doesn't really give the "umpf" it should IMO.

just a suggestion... Cheers!
 
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Ben4d90 on December 05, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
mb this doesn't need to happen but i have a suggestion.... kind of a nerf actually.....

Agent coyle alpha one, or perhaps even mechborn...

As they activate their abilities could it also increase their cost? (mb by 1 or 2 per upgrade?) Other coyles increase cost as they evolve (to dragons) and doing the same with alpha one and mechborn doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

the reason for this is Red Tape ( i know it's already an amazingly rude card) but red taping an upgraded alpha or mechborn doesn't really give the "umpf" it should IMO.

just a suggestion... Cheers!

I second this. Their cost goes up to 10 once transformed, so it makes sense that their cost would increase when buffing through their ability.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: NatoPotato on December 05, 2016, 01:32:01 AM
the reason for this is Red Tape ( i know it's already an amazingly rude card) but red taping an upgraded alpha or mechborn doesn't really give the "umpf" it should IMO.

Doesn't just affect red tape, would also nerfs people being able to set one as a commander and spam buff before deploying.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: TameRlane on December 05, 2016, 01:42:15 AM
Quote
Doesn't just affect red tape, would also nerfs people being able to set one as a commander and spam buff before deploying.

yes it would. but is that a problem? deploy then buff is a common (theme?/format?).

i dunno i was just suggesting based off of my own red tape interactions. the full decision rests with the balance team.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: InvertedEye on December 05, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
You guys want to make red tape even stronger! Its already one of the best removals in the game. :o
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: drewmb10 on December 05, 2016, 01:14:58 PM
You guys want to make red tape even stronger! Its already one of the best removals in the game. :o
Not only that, but make self-buffing characters unplayable.

deploy then buff is a common (theme?/format?).
I think most people buff and then play. Red Tape doesn't need any more help than it already gets. It's one of the Rebellion cards that could certainly use a nerf right now.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Dogeee [BoD] on December 05, 2016, 01:15:20 PM
mb this doesn't need to happen but i have a suggestion.... kind of a nerf actually.....

Agent coyle alpha one, or perhaps even mechborn...

As they activate their abilities could it also increase their cost? (mb by 1 or 2 per upgrade?) Other coyles increase cost as they evolve (to dragons) and doing the same with alpha one and mechborn doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

the reason for this is Red Tape ( i know it's already an amazingly rude card) but red taping an upgraded alpha or mechborn doesn't really give the "umpf" it should IMO.

just a suggestion... Cheers!

the buffing has a cost already. its the ability that makes mech playable in the 1st place. the dragon transform is unplayable on the other hand. i havent played tape yet but i would not think it needs a buff at all, it seems already pretty potent for a fd removal
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Coco992 on December 06, 2016, 04:31:02 AM
I think what Orisolve is doing is quite needed. Because I feel the balance team could be looking only at the legendaries that are less played.

I am curious to know if the balance team is looking through all the legends, or if they have set their aims only at some of them. I see a lot of suggestions, but all of those  consider the other legendaries are perfectly fine. I am not saying Klore need a buff, but I think every legend would deserve a little bit of time to see if they are played, if they are balanced and more importantly if they will be balanced with the new balanced legendaries.

The arguments of Orisolve are relevant and should be considered. And all legendaries should have fact and comparaisons made to make sure their stats and abilities match.

On overall, I really can't make jugments on cards. I am a normal game players, where the matchups are more important then the decks you play in order to win, so I don't know what i would mean if AC Immovable got 1 more attack.

I could althought share this impression:

-Hybrid purities should not fill the purities (Gao Han and the other dude in FD/OOS, I can't recall his name, not important enough I believe). it just kill the fun of deck creation if you only have 1 option to make a shell around a card.

And this one:

-I feel all the legendaries of Exile either play with Randomness, dicard effects or are unplayable. It would be fun to have something that supports the more aggro nature of exile (demon decks style for instance). Or something that helps control. AC Hellbringer could be something that helps this gap (I am looking specifically at the turn 5 creature drop).

Oh and this one:

-Legends mostly costs a lot, and have fringe abilities. Therefore, if they don't have impact the turn they are played, their usefulness is quite limited if they can't be in the command zone. A lot of legends are unplayable because other cards are better in command then them and they are too much of a risk if you waste a turn 6 or 7 creature drop that is not that much a win.

Anyway, it's all my opinion. I think rebalance is a great way to improve IW, it will be an hard task, but I am pretty sure the community is more then willing to help.

Keep on the good work!
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: Hiding on December 06, 2016, 05:13:14 AM
Just a reminder on card design:
>good stats
>good ability

Choose one. Dont make any more cards like Corrupted Dragon where it has both and is now unplayable due to cost.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: famouswarrior on December 13, 2016, 03:53:47 PM
Please do not rebalance old cards or ANY cards for that matter! My wallet just couldn't handle it. Please be considerate, i beg you!

I see lots of people giving you guys complicated mechanics as a solution for balance. I say just tweak the numbers of stats, cost of deployment and abilities and be done with it. Also, I think that common cards that are mathematically useless could use a rebalancing, like Soldier of Fortune.

My suggestions:

Tygris - The purpose of this card is to simply make cards, so just add the rest of the named abilities in the game like Consume, Bloodthirst, Indestructible, etc and then add abilities as you give them names such as the ability to remove cards from the graveyard if you hit the opponent or the ability to add a resource. Also, you already established with Tribble that 0 cost only gets you a 0/1 creature, so don't let Tygris create 0/0 to feed Taiga.

Gao Han, Champion of Warding - Why change a good thing? Give him the same ability as Gao Han, The Stalwart instead while keeping Flying and Champion.

Aberion, Champion of Force - Even the art in Fiery Ascension agrees. Add Charge.

Agent Coyle, Firestarter - He has Firestarter as a title but does not start any fires. Add Immolation 1

Agent Coyle, Ascended - Recruit Of Solace is 12/10 for 5 but AC,A is 10/10 for 6? Reduce Cost to 4 and make Recruit of Solace 1p.

Agent Coyle, HellBringer - It competes too much with other beatsticks like Hungry Abomination. Reduce cost to 5.

Princess Hinekri - Put her with the Sleepers. J/K, she just has Sleeper abilities, anyway, reduce cost to 3 so she can come out and do what she was designed to do; defend!

Vasir the Demon Prince - Reduce cost to 8. Exiles and Verore do not have any 8 cost cards! >XD

Die Another Day - Reduce cost to 7 so there is some resources left to add something else that might turn the situation around.

Evellee - Reduce cost to 2 to make her attractive enough for anyone to put her in a greater variety of decks instead of just ones focused around a combo. Also, please limit Unique characters if they are in the graveyard as well, like with Unique abilities, in order to prevent multiple copies using Evellee and other mechanisms.

Xi, Martyr of Peace - All characters get their attack reduced to 0.

Liand - Reduce cost to 3.

Marina The Selfless - Get rid of "Deployed" target condition.
Title: Re: Further Balance Plans
Post by: TameRlane on December 14, 2016, 06:34:12 AM
DISREGARD UNTIL BALANCING COMMONS/UNCOMMONS
I know you guys have your hands full at the moment and aren't anywhere near this point yet but i might forget this if i don't write it now.