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Infinity Wars => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: NTL on September 10, 2016, 01:19:54 PM

Title: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: NTL on September 10, 2016, 01:19:54 PM
I wrote this post with silent approval of many veteran players,
DrewUniverse is paid employee, while we are customers of product called Infinity Wars, we have right to review that product and everything that affects it (so work of CM also), also can and should demand high quality product.

He is rarely online in game, what is one of, if not the most important part of his job, at least most visible for community.
He often cancels tournaments without any advance notice (so players keep wasting time on waiting) and there isn't shadow of remorse in CM after that.
We virtually must beg him to do his job, constantly reminding about weekly posts and tourneys.
He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation: http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0 (http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0)
It was direct blow in future game income, since russian market is huge thus important.

From time to time our 'great' CM disappears like Houdini for few hours or days and literally no one has the slightest idea where... Quite admirable feat, unfortunately not too useful since community manager is 24/7 job.

He can't even keep his own promises: http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66412.0 (http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66412.0)
(And it wasn't even his first time doing so).
That was public suicide as CM, I have no idea how he kept job after that, my imagination just fails to understand it, even taking into account low standards in LM. Keeping him as CM after all of he did and did not is like keeping ticking bomb in hope it will not blow up and is and will be clear signal to community - we really don't care what you all think, we tolerate incompetence and indolence of person who is (or at least should be) face of our game,
 
I have access to PM's when he offended well known and honored members of our community.
What mockery is this where person responsible for communication can't hold his own emotions and keep offending such players?
As CM he can't show any negative emotions to players, that alone disqualify him in this job.
Just to be clear, those players wanted to offer help and feedback to make overall gaming experience better and such, they meant no harm.

All we see are his lame explanations and empty promises of improvement after countless screw-ups - all lies.
There is no excuse for such behavior. DrewUniverse proved over and over to be harmful for our game and provided, provide and
will provide negative feedback, now just from his mere existence alone. He is by no means reliable and lost our trust long time ago.
And before someone will start to defend him saying he sometimes does something -
I want to notice that it's his puffying job and should be taken as a given for God's sake!
All meaningful changes were done with the help of global moderators, previous council members etc,
They already do most of CM job (in their free time as volunteers!), and may do rest if needed.
All that's left are 'weekly' posts, but let be serious - I could write better posts in less than hour and english isn't even my first language...
So what our CM really does? I may as well answer he does nothing, and it'll be not far from truth.
I would like to conclude by saying that current CM is easily replaceable and temporary absence of CM position will not affect negatively IW in any way even in long term.
We only tolerate him due to circumstances, but enough is enough.
Time to end this farce with him being CM, someone who chose him should just admit it was big and costly mistake and be done with it.
PS I didn't mention my own personal issues with CM so you shouldn't accuse me of bias :)
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Dark.Lord on September 10, 2016, 03:50:06 PM
Just shut up and lose to my death blast dammit.

Okay jokes asaid, WHAT ABOUT TECH KNIGHT ???? That card is more playable now. Seriously it took them 5 months to give the card +2 and you all complaining like this ?
Jeez...

All you do is sit all day long playing games whole drew is OBVIOUSLY talking with + sized models for the future of the game dammit.

Complaints complaints that ain't getting us no where... now excuse me I'm gonna grab my phone and play IW. Of wait nvm I can't do that yet.

Well what ever I'll play some games with my guild mates... hmm puffy I forgot we don't have that...

Not a big deal though I will play a ranked match or two..

*1000 years later*

Okay that option is out of the equation as well..

Then.. then I will ..... build a new deck.

puffy game crashed while I was dragging a card ..

Anyway it doesn't matter because now I know what to do. I will uninstal the game that should be fun...

Dammit even the uninstal option is glitched....

Okay you might be right I give up.

-SaltyKnight69
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: zekses on September 10, 2016, 04:18:41 PM
+1 to everything NTL said. Even though I have since cooled down and Russian translation isn't as paralyzed anymore, I still think Drew isn't an adequate CM. He is too personal and constantly forgets his own promises (see latest post on the translation boards.)
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: quangtit01 on September 10, 2016, 06:40:07 PM
Hide ur Cheese boysssss
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Drevoed on September 10, 2016, 09:09:16 PM
First of all, lynching is very not cool of you.

But more on point, as far as I know, he's constantly busy with the work, I often want to casually chat with him as a friend, and he rarely has any spare time for that. If you need more CM support in game 24/7, solution is to ask for more community managers, not changing the only one we have in hopes to find a person who literally never sleeps, knows the game, nice with people, fluent in English, etc. If anything, we should keep him at all costs.

You don't "have to beg him to do his job", he's doing the best he can, and you are only interrupting him with that.

I believe russian translation was almost complete last time I checked, and my help wasn't needed, but I'm still free to do any russian translation required in place of Zekses.

He made a few mistakes in the past, and as I understand it, namely setting his deadlines incorrectly, which isn't really a big deal imo, and the big one being talking to some of the vets as a person and expecting them to act maturely.

All in all, I believe he's doing a great job right now, and we still have plently of time before the full Rebellion release to see how he will perform.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: NTL on September 10, 2016, 09:53:07 PM
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/57498378.jpg)

First of all, lynching is very not cool of you.
And so is quality of his 'work'.

But more on point, as far as I know, he's constantly busy with the work, I often want to casually chat with him as a friend, and he rarely has any spare time for that. If you need more CM support in game 24/7, solution is to ask for more community managers, not changing the only one we have in hopes to find a person who literally never sleeps, knows the game, nice with people, fluent in English, etc. If anything, we should keep him at all costs.
(https://t7.rbxcdn.com/b5b4e8a39ed5c04a9653cbbe1f833072)

You don't "have to beg him to do his job", he's doing the best he can, and you are only interrupting him with that.
Maybe best he can is just not enough? (rhetorical question)

I believe russian translation was almost complete last time I checked, and my help wasn't needed, but I'm still free to do any russian translation required in place of Zekses.
Zekses already answered it.

He made a few mistakes in the past, and as I understand it, namely setting his deadlines incorrectly, which isn't really a big deal imo, and the big one being talking to some of the vets as a person and expecting them to act maturely.
(http://m.memegen.com/unc02i.jpg)

All in all, I believe he's doing a great job right now, and we still have plently of time before the full Rebellion release to see how he will perform.
(http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/65/6553/UNT4100Z/plakaty/the-x-files-i-want-to-believe-print.jpg)

You are good friend, trying to defend lost case, I will give you that much  :)
(http://new3.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Just+stop+_e240efc945226c27c31d3c7c899847d6.jpg)
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: OneTwo on September 10, 2016, 10:17:23 PM
What is a good CM?

I think its a given, that you cant please everyone. If you make 1 part of a group happy, most of the time the other part will be unpleased.

Is there any evaluation, what the community is rly expecting from DrewUniverse?

Personally, i would be glad, if there is someone in the forums answering ALL questions and is monitoring/leading some kind of dialogue in various posts. Getting from time to time some insight, of what is happening in Yodomares office and frequent announcements of some promo-stuff which gives player the idea that the game is alive! And beeing online/ingame right after a patch!

So right now, pretty much the differnt of what i do see DrewUniverse is doing. I dont know what he is doing, but im sure he is fullfilling his duty according to the contract he has signed.

Maybe DrewUniverse should do some kind of restart. Telling the community some kind of vision, he is heading towards. And what we can expect of him and what not - and if there are good reasons for leaving a clumsy and unreliable impression, maybe just name them. People can only understand your situation, if you are telling them!
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: MerliniX on September 10, 2016, 11:20:29 PM
Currently I, personally, find it extremely hard to trust yodomare when they have chosen Drew to be thier public face. The missed deadlines and failed promises completely aside his interactions with several people (including myself) have at times been at best unprofessional and at worse offensive and insulting. Yodomare choosing to keep him on in any sort of public capacity tells me that either his supervisors are condoning this behavior, or that they are unaware of it, neither of which are acceptable.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: zekses on September 11, 2016, 12:30:44 AM
Drew is a community manager but he doesn't care about the community. Every time he promises stuff done at a certain date he doesn't deliver, worse, he doesn't bother to keep ppl updated. Those same ppl that were promised a specific deadline and are probably waiting.

Latest example: he promised the status of translation to be updated "tomorrow" and forgot about the forum for 4 days. Even when he has been asked there about what's going on, he STILL didnt answer and it took me (as usual) mocking him on discord to make a status update happen.


Drew, I am NOT your personal organizer. Please download one and keep  those deadline reminders in check!
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: IguanaMan on September 11, 2016, 01:07:33 AM
What a lovely thread  ::)
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Pelagoth on September 11, 2016, 01:33:38 AM
Let me summarize the past 8 months:

DrewUniverse was a great guy and surely one of the most active players that added a lot more competitive action, than the game deserved at that point with his constantly improving tournaments.

I'd like to put everyone into the time machine and take a look at these old quotes

No one has done more for the community than DrewUniverse.
My choice : DrewUniverse

Because i think IW would have died without his tournaments :)
Drew is almost for sure the 2016 player, but, you never knows...  :P

As you can see, there has been an almost entire mutual agreement that Drew is going to be Player of the Year 2016 at such an early point.

I'd also like to add my personal appreciation for his motivating and encouraging work. He has also complimented stuff other people did and motivated them.

But it all changed when the fire nation attacked...

Drew became CM. At first he did a decent job. Communicated with the community, was mostly on schedule and was friendly/professional about his job.

From my perspective, he couldn't handle his workload. So slowly but steadily his productivity and efficiency dropped. Weekly posts were delayed, tournaments were cancelled, community interaction has decreased and professional communication has derailed to personal feuds (like personally attacking people in PM).

The opinions of many people has evolved from "DrewUniverse for player of the year 2016" to "DrewUniverse, the most unreliable and unprofessional CM in IW history".

I don't exactly know why his quality has dropped that abruptly, but I believe that he can't handle the workload and fix discipline required to fulfil his job as a CM.

Not trying to be offensive, but it would've been much better to keep Drew as a tournament host and made it voluntarily with developer support (providing him with sufficient rewards and maybe helping him plan/schedule stuff).

I can't fully agree with NTL, since I believe quite a bit of what he said is exaggerated and mixed with personal emotions, but I do agree that Drew isn't fulfilling the role as a CM, like he should be. Or as Merlin said, either LM isn't aware of his lack of competence, or that are condoning the behaviour.

My suggestion: Make Drew a dedicated tournament host again (if he is willed) and find someone more fitting for the CM role.

This recently happened with my football club: We had a bad season, then the coach got fired. The coach of the youth team got promoted to chief-coach of the first team and he did a fine job at first. Won quite a few games and stabiized the system. However, he couldn't keep it consistent, and we started losing game after game resulting in dropping down a league at the end of the season. Then he also got fired, although he was great as youth team coach and just got gutted by having too many new responsibilities and workload at once.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Benionin on September 11, 2016, 01:49:28 AM
To also speak up in Drew's defense, he has not failed at everything. I worked with him a lot over the summer, and every time we set a deadline it was met. He has been extremely helpful--like I said last time someone made a thread complaining about him, I couldn't have run my tournament without him.

Also consider that during Drarz's CDC where Drarz couldn't judge all of the entries--Drew arranged for a team of judges to take over and ensure a smooth transition in spite of the over 50 participants. Drew's work supporting the CDC has been prompt and helpful.

I'm not sure how you can confirm that he's only rarely online.

You mention that his successes don't matter because we shouldn't have to beg him to do his job, but we have no knowledge of how much behind-the-scenes work he's doing--the impression I've received is that he's been working on quite a bit that he can't share with us yet.

The truth is that no matter what Drew does to improve, most of you have given up on him completely and can't see past the negatives to the work that has actually been accomplished.

Don't worry, I'm sure NTL has some good memes for this.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Pelagoth on September 11, 2016, 02:46:56 AM
Don't worry, I'm sure NTL has some good memes for this.
Not sure about NTL, but I can give you a run for your money. Consider this a factual arguementation of each point with as little personal emotions involved as possible.

To also speak up in Drew's defense, he has not failed at everything. I worked with him a lot over the summer, and every time we set a deadline it was met. He has been extremely helpful--like I said last time someone made a thread complaining about him, I couldn't have run my tournament without him.
Setting a deadline and meeting it, is as we know, not one of his strengths. Infact, it has proven to be more of a coin flip, in which you got the possitive effect.

Helping your tournament is another one of those cases. As for my or Largenugget's 24h-Stream, I can't really recall getting any help at all by LM/Yodo1 (usually communicated by the CM). I measely had him appear at the end of my stream and let me preview the card art preemptively. That's the entire support (no, I don't need an apology for that again).



Also consider that during Drarz's CDC where Drarz couldn't judge all of the entries--Drew arranged for a team of judges to take over and ensure a smooth transition in spite of the over 50 participants. Drew's work supporting the CDC has been prompt and helpful.
CDC's have not been getting the attention they deserved. Drew only took care of them after many impulses from the community (including a PM from me and probably some others). Thus I wouldn't call it prompt. Helpful only with limits.

On a side note: Drew has looked into my CDC Rules Suggestions topic and said he liked the idea quite a lot. Yet I do not see any post that inclines him enforcing that into CDC. Again, missed effort on a simple task (pre-written even).

I'm not sure how you can confirm that he's only rarely online.
I don't know about that either. There have been times where I havn't seem him online for days and seriously worried about him losing faith in IW's success. He has been on much more lately though.

You mention that his successes don't matter because we shouldn't have to beg him to do his job, but we have no knowledge of how much behind-the-scenes work he's doing--the impression I've received is that he's been working on quite a bit that he can't share with us yet.
We can have an idea about the workload behind the scenes, since he often explains them to us (such as team meetings, all his lists and the other stuff he is "doing"). However, there is a way more important and more informative source: Teremus. While we don't know his exact workload either, he always did a lot and stayed in touch. Much more than Drew does now, which is weird because the 2nd half of last year wasn't very eventful, infact even the opposite, so teremus had less to write about yet did more in total.

I'd like to actually see some more results before I further go into success assumptions though.

The truth is that no matter what Drew does to improve, most of you have given up on him completely and can't see past the negatives to the work that has actually been accomplished.
Take it from an optimistic person (that started out very possitive in IW): One right doesn't clean out all his mistakes. And vice versa, one mistake doesn't mean everything is puffye. I do see a lot more weight on the side of mistakes Drew has commited though. Not only has he not acted unprofessional in fulfilling his responsibilities as a CM, he has also acted unprofessional towards players. The few remarkable feats he has contributed to are minor to the mistakes he has commited.

You are now accusing other people of being ignorant towards any possitive changes. While that might be true for some players, it is a rather bold statement. Also, don't blame these people for doing so, they have been promised A LOT more than what is actually released at this point.

Drew has a lot of puffy to wipe up before people can actually see the floor again. You have the right to defend him, and while I am sure that you have a point or two which are true to some extent, to me it appears that your post is influenced by your possitive emotional bias regarding Drew and makes your way of thinking slightly flawed.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Adorabear on September 11, 2016, 04:40:24 AM
I unfortunately, can condone neither Drews behavior, nor this thread.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: NTL on September 11, 2016, 10:09:09 AM
Entire community, and only 2 players felt like defending CM so far. Surprising? Not at all...
I forgot to add something important in my initial post, but there are kind people those provide me support and reminded me of that. Thank you  ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/ZforF5k.png)
 If you don't like the game, go play another one !
Guess I can just leave it without any comment.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Goldschuss on September 11, 2016, 01:16:21 PM
So what about this statement?

He stated his opinion, like any other player could and I see no wrongdoings in this one.
And this is precisely what I see in a community manager: He is just a normal player that acts as a connection between players and devs and thus has some more privileges and duties, but that's about it, he can state his opinion freely.

Of course he shouldn't insult players, but that is a general rule for every player of infinity wars, not just limited to him. Somewhere in this thread it is mentionend that he would insult players in the worst case scenario - something that has yet to be proven, as well as the statement that he is actually paid for his work.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: toon310 on September 11, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
Cmon guys why all this hate ?

Drew is alone to do a lot of stuff, he can't be there 24h/7d, he has a life on the side too, he must take care of : the tourneys, the forums, the weekly post, the translations, and so on (so many things we don't know) and you know what ? He is human !!! ok not a machine and if somebody pisses him, he might overreacting !

Don't act like : "i could do a better job", because you simply know nothing ... you think you know but you don't

It's so easy to throw critics on somebody that is alone to do everything, maybe you can offer him your help and you will see how hard it is.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Heyheuhei on September 11, 2016, 01:55:07 PM
Cmon guys why all this hate ?

Drew is alone to do a lot of stuff, he can't be there 24h/7d, he has a life on the side too, he must take care of : the tourneys, the forums, the weekly post, the translations, and so on (so many things we don't know) and you know what ? He is human !!! ok not a machine and if somebody pisses him, he might overreacting !

Don't act like : "i could do a better job", because you simply know nothing ... you think you know but you don't

It's so easy to throw critics on somebody that is alone to do everything, maybe you can offer him your help and you will see how hard it is.

+1
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: zekses on September 11, 2016, 03:06:06 PM
Quote
Drew is alone to do a lot of stuff, he can't be there 24h/7d, he has a life on the side too, he must take care of : the tourneys, the forums, the weekly post, the translations, and so on (so many things we don't know) and you know what ?

My personal problem with drew isnt that he is overworked and does nothing.  I know he is and I can respect that he does stuff at least. My problem with him is that he KNOWS he is overworked, knows he forgets things, but still freely promises stuff left and right that never gets done (in time).
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Adorabear on September 11, 2016, 03:20:50 PM
I dunno, I did offer him my help. I even offered to write his posts for him. I also worked closely with Teremus for years so I know quite a bit about what the role is like. I dont remember Rikki ever being late with anything and never sent players rude messages or harassed players until they left the game. Same with Teremus.

I think theres real issues, but I also don't think this is the way to address issues like this at all. If you have an issue with a staff member you should talk to them about it privately and if they are unreasonable then you should talk to Crestmore about it. I don't think a thread like this helps things.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: toon310 on September 11, 2016, 04:18:56 PM
I dunno, I did offer him my help. I even offered to write his posts for him. I also worked closely with Teremus for years so I know quite a bit about what the role is like. I dont remember Rikki ever being late with anything and never sent players rude messages or harassed players until they left the game. Same with Teremus.

I think theres real issues, but I also don't think this is the way to address issues like this at all. If you have an issue with a staff member you should talk to them about it privately and if they are unreasonable then you should talk to Crestmore about it. I don't think a thread like this helps things.

I agree that this kind of public attack won't solve anything. it also gives a bad picture of the game.

I also agree that a CM should learn to keep cool, whatever the circumstances, but sometimes people can be really trash and it's easy to loose his temper.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Pelagoth on September 11, 2016, 08:43:02 PM
I also don't think this is the way to address issues like this at all.
I agree to this. I said it to NTL privately already and to stay objective about it if he were to do it. Just wanted to add some facts that were lost in an emotional rant (OP) along with an alternative (making Drew sole tournament host again).

Only issue I personally have, is that I don't want this game to die. I want this game to bloom and the way things were handled previously, have not helped that one bit. Mainly the way the game is represented in both marketing and communication (via CM). Both of them have lacked in the past (i.e. delayed weekly posts and plus-size-model ad) and they continue to do so (still notice a lack of communication/activity by the CM and still no further marketing done).

I could care less about a CMs behaviour towards his crowd if the quality of the game doesn't suffer from it.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: NTL on September 12, 2016, 03:07:52 AM
Some if you stated this is not the way to address issues like this at all and it's valid point.
I was aware of that, yet I decided to made it public to not be ignored and let you guys speak what you think about DrewUniverse as community manager.

Drew is alone to do a lot of stuff, he can't be there 24h/7d, he has a life on the side too, he must take care of : the tourneys, the forums, the weekly post, the translations, and so on (so many things we don't know) and you know what ? He is human !!! ok not a machine and if somebody pisses him, he might overreacting !

Don't act like : "i could do a better job", because you simply know nothing ... you think you know but you don't

You say I know nothing, but I assure you I know a little more than most of you, I know and chat with people with behind the scenes knowledge, and they are all negative about current CM and the person who know the most is the most negative.
They just don't want want or can't be involved in public discussion, they have to abstain from all comments.

I don't know his full job description, but I can review what I see and it looks really bad for him.
I also can compare DrewUniverse to previous CM's, both Teremus and Rikki has done a better job and were much more professional.
He is human, ok I get it... so we can't judge him LOL
If he can't keep emotions in check, then this is not job for him - as simple as that.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: antideath on September 12, 2016, 03:53:09 PM
drew should lock this and hide thread and discuss in Private messages.
posting this in public is lame. shame on the poster.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Dogeee [BoD] on September 12, 2016, 04:45:20 PM
first of all: NTL has every right to post this here. it is not insulting, it is his perspective on the things that happened and he has every right to say what he thinks or to go even further, it is NECESSARY that those things are posted if anyone feels like it IMO.

second of all

Let me summarize the past 8 months:

DrewUniverse was a great guy and surely one of the most active players that added a lot more competitive action, than the game deserved at that point with his constantly improving tournaments.

I'd like to put everyone into the time machine and take a look at these old quotes

No one has done more for the community than DrewUniverse.
My choice : DrewUniverse

Because i think IW would have died without his tournaments :)
Drew is almost for sure the 2016 player, but, you never knows...  :P

As you can see, there has been an almost entire mutual agreement that Drew is going to be Player of the Year 2016 at such an early point.

I'd also like to add my personal appreciation for his motivating and encouraging work. He has also complimented stuff other people did and motivated them.

But it all changed when the fire nation attacked...

Drew became CM. At first he did a decent job. Communicated with the community, was mostly on schedule and was friendly/professional about his job.

From my perspective, he couldn't handle his workload. So slowly but steadily his productivity and efficiency dropped. Weekly posts were delayed, tournaments were cancelled, community interaction has decreased and professional communication has derailed to personal feuds (like personally attacking people in PM).

The opinions of many people has evolved from "DrewUniverse for player of the year 2016" to "DrewUniverse, the most unreliable and unprofessional CM in IW history".

I don't exactly know why his quality has dropped that abruptly, but I believe that he can't handle the workload and fix discipline required to fulfil his job as a CM.

Not trying to be offensive, but it would've been much better to keep Drew as a tournament host and made it voluntarily with developer support (providing him with sufficient rewards and maybe helping him plan/schedule stuff).

I can't fully agree with NTL, since I believe quite a bit of what he said is exaggerated and mixed with personal emotions, but I do agree that Drew isn't fulfilling the role as a CM, like he should be. Or as Merlin said, either LM isn't aware of his lack of competence, or that are condoning the behaviour.

My suggestion: Make Drew a dedicated tournament host again (if he is willed) and find someone more fitting for the CM role.

This recently happened with my football club: We had a bad season, then the coach got fired. The coach of the youth team got promoted to chief-coach of the first team and he did a fine job at first. Won quite a few games and stabiized the system. However, he couldn't keep it consistent, and we started losing game after game resulting in dropping down a league at the end of the season. Then he also got fired, although he was great as youth team coach and just got gutted by having too many new responsibilities and workload at once.

+1
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: ORISOLVE on September 12, 2016, 04:53:51 PM
NTL has every right to post this. Although I do not condone this message nor his course of action currently, Drew or any developer has no right to lock/delete this thread. You have to ask yourself, why would someone go to extreme lengths to criticize another if they had done nothing wrong. This isn't the first time a thread with this similar topic has risen. There are also many people who side with NTL. Silencing someone just because you don't agree with their opinion is wrong on so many levels. NTL has provided a case of reasonable doubt and explained his stance on this issue in a mature manner. How is it possible for so many people to have such disdain for a prominent member of the community/LM authority figure, who was once the runner up for "player- of-the-year"? A discussion in Private messages will solve nothing. Going behind someone's back to criticize them is far worse than presenting the issue to the public in a proper manner. This wasn't just an insult to "Drew and his awful crew". NTL is also a valued member of the community as well as many others who criticize the CM. So they are risking their own reputation to call attention to an issue they have with the game.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: hibbidy_jibbidy0 on September 17, 2016, 01:37:20 AM
stay classy lol

I cant even to begin to say how messed up this is.

i feel disgusted for even reading this bs. cant imagine how ashamed I would feel if I wrote it, but most disgusting people, who feel the world has slighted them is some way can and will do everything they  can for "lol justice" and anything they say or do is justified.

this whole anger bs that has been going around reminds me a a high school drama, some body didn't get recognition for something, or somebody's opinion was not asked, or  somebody didn't get invited to the big cm party now REVEEEEENGE! revenge one everyone!!
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: NTL on September 17, 2016, 03:37:23 PM
If stating the facts is 'revenge' and demanding new CM who'll be at least semi-competent
and will not antagonize most active members of IW community is 'justice', then absolutely - I fight for justice and am thirsty for revenge  :)
There are more those share the same sentiment about DrewUniverse, such post would be done anyway, just not necessarily made public - which was my choice.
I speak openly, being prepared for possible consequences. I am not proud of this topic and I'm not a petty person, I have damn good reason for going to such lengths.
You can think whatever you want about me - however, it's topic about CM, not me.
If your intention was defending of CM - you failed miserably (from DrewUniverse defenders I feel like only post of Benionin was worthy of legit answer), you didn't provide any feedback, next time stay on topic or send me PM if you wish to continue talk about me and my class alone.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: ecliptix on September 17, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
I usually try to stay out of toxic topics like this, but when I see a post that looks like this:

Quote
If stating the facts is 'revenge' and demanding new CM who'll be at least semi-competent
and will not antagonize most active members of IW community is 'justice', then absolutely - I fight for justice and am thirsty for revenge  :)

I can't sit out anymore. Justice and revenge seldom, if ever, go together in the same sentence - especially when they're accompanied by a passive-aggressive smiley emoticon and the emotional charge on the conversation burned out 5 days ago.

Is Drew the best CM we've ever had? No, absolutely not. We know it and I'm pretty sure he knows it. There's a reason though that we don't name and shame - it accomplishes nothing, makes the community in general look like a bunch of petulant children and really doesn't show people the appeal that our community normally has in terms of maturity. Furthermore, when the name of a topic is "Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM" I'm sorry - your post isn't about the CM anymore, its about DrewUniverse, who is also a CM. This topic could have just as easily been named "Finding the ideal CM" and I can almost guarantee you there would have been a radically different response which addressed the same concerns. The topic subliminally invited people to trash the person - not the position. I'm assuming that wasn't your intention, but that's what happened.

If the job someone is doing is subpar, then as a community member it is certainly within our rights to post to the community forum what your concerns are. However the OP wasn't a post about what the CM was doing wrong and what can be done better - it was an expose smearing someone and get everyone to jump onto a bandwagon of hate without coming up with any ACTUAL solutions to what is otherwise a valid concern. In the real world you don't get a pat on the head just because you can point out someone who isn't doing their job optimally. You get points for identifying a problem AND providing a solution - something this thread has a real lack of. Just saying "Get/gut the new guy" isn't really all that helpful unless we can clearly identify how the ideal CM ought to interact with the community.

This is definitely a topic that needs a detailed discussion but we're getting nowhere with a thread containing an emotional train which was derailed at some point. If anything, this thread should be locked purely on the basis of what an embarrassment it is for the community that it degraded into a daytime soap opera. To be clear, I'm not defending the current CM, but I'm also not defending this thread either.

Come on people, we're better than this.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: OneTwo on September 18, 2016, 07:24:59 AM
There's a reason though that we don't name and shame - it accomplishes nothing, makes the community in general look like a bunch of petulant children and really doesn't show people the appeal that our community normally has in terms of maturity.

Come on people, we're better than this.

Dont underestimate the value of immature content and how many people feel attracted by this kind of entertainment.

All social media plattforms and streaming sites are build up on drama! Thats a key factor of beeing successful.

So i dont care much, how people do think about forum content... before they judge the content and the approach to different topics, they will judge the activity. And yeah - thats a part of the problem! This forum tells everyone: THIS GAME IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!

So having a forum which is alive, but immature, is still better than having a dead forum. Cause it would still attract some kind of people, instead of noone!
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Adorabear on September 18, 2016, 08:11:11 AM
You get points for identifying a problem AND providing a solution - something this thread has a real lack of. Just saying "Get/gut the new guy" isn't really all that helpful unless we can clearly identify how the ideal CM ought to interact with the community.

The thing is we've already done those threads ecliptix. We already identified issues and suggested solutions and in fact yodomare already committed to implementing those solutions to an extent. For exaaaaaample they committed to providing short weekly updates on progress and upcoming events. These were going fine uptil Drew. Rikki never missed a single one. Whereas this weeks post is already 3 days late and is the 4th late post in a row. And this is after he promised this would never happen again and that even if he couldn't do it because of some unforeseen crazy circumstance he would then get Chappie to step in and do it for him. I haven't even seen him this week, ive not seen him in global or discord or forums at all. Has anyone else? He seems to be just perma afk and late. He is PAID to be the most active, accessible person in the community and he is one of the least.

Theres nothing personal or dramatic about that, he simply is not doing his job. People are just wondering why. Nothing sensational about that IMO.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Dogeee [BoD] on September 18, 2016, 08:33:58 AM
yea. being paid. thats the most of it. many ppl seem to be more dedicated and not payed than ppl being not dedicated that get payed.
actually i feel its kinda crazy to bash the OP for a post that couldve had come from anyone.
but now that adora has stated what he thinks i guess y'all in the end will say what he said is right, problem fixed.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Adorabear on September 18, 2016, 09:28:03 AM
Well I mean communication is not a 1 person problem either. Its up to the whole Yodomare team to work AS a team to ensure a professional and friendly appearance with a smooth flow of information in both directions.
So if Drew isn't getting the support or resources he needs to be able to do his job then its up to the team to iron those kinks out as well. IMO good communication is a responsibility the entire team shares, and has to work together to maintain. Because the entire team needs to be on the same page within the group to be able to operate efficiently themselves and also because the entire team looks bad when external communication is poor.
I would love to see crisp, professional, friendly and clear communication from Yodomare. I would love to see them do what it takes to turn that aspect of the business from a weakness to a strength.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Pelagoth on September 19, 2016, 06:31:28 AM
Well I mean communication is not a 1 person problem either. Its up to the whole Yodomare team to work AS a team to ensure a professional and friendly appearance with a smooth flow of information in both directions.
So if Drew isn't getting the support or resources he needs to be able to do his job then its up to the team to iron those kinks out as well. IMO good communication is a responsibility the entire team shares, and has to work together to maintain. Because the entire team needs to be on the same page within the group to be able to operate efficiently themselves and also because the entire team looks bad when external communication is poor.
I would love to see crisp, professional, friendly and clear communication from Yodomare. I would love to see them do what it takes to turn that aspect of the business from a weakness to a strength.
Last time I adressed this issue and there being a serious business plan flaw, I got mauled for it. Drew also mentioned there is a backup plan for when he isn't there and some other stuff.

If you are interested in the entire discussion: http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=65976.15
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Teremus on September 19, 2016, 09:43:24 AM
Players are always entitled to their opinion.

Players are requested that they respect other players, and at least be respectful of staff. "Respect" is not confined to being agreeable. Respect can be displayed while also disagreeing or stating criticism.

OP should acknowledge that there are other perspectives on Drew's work, and that their own experience should be considered one version of a sample demographic. Another demographic exists that disagrees with their point of view.

All of these perspectives can co-exist in respect, don't lose sight of that. Don't let yourself become so absorbed that you can't see past the confined wisdom that we as humans all share.

These kinds of topics are a difficult pill to swallow for a CM, especially when there's a lot they cannot say or do with the handcuffs placed on them. It's one reason I've stepped away from the Video Game industry for such a time as I have, as I refuse to be a part of the bureaucracy and corporate nature I've been "Paid" to be a part of. I became very disillusioned and disheartened with the background mistreatment of player sentiment despite my best efforts.

I will not be a part of a games studio that is incapable of treating the player perspective with the level of respect it deserves. I've become a firm believer of the mentality that the best marketing a game can have is positive word of mouth, which many haven't realized will never happen if you don't place the community perspective on a high pedestal.

Players in our current generation are much more demanding than they were years ago, it's no longer enough to simply create a quality product. In the case of an Online Multiplayer Game there is much more that is necessary in modern game development. The longer studios put off proper User Engagement and Learning and use CM's as a Marketing tool rather than what we can truly do, the longer this industry will suffer.

I don't know where Yodmare is at with any of their original desires for Infinity Wars, but it looks like it's going nowhere fast and Drew is stuck in a very similar position I was in a little more than a year ago.

I love this game, and I really wish it could have been realized in all its potential glory.

Perhaps Drew hasn't been living up to your expectations, that's on him. I still see many of the standards I instilled in this community back in 2012 living today which I'm glad to see - hopefully that never dies.

With Love, Health, Happiness and Cheese ~

Teremus.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: ORISOLVE on September 19, 2016, 06:06:24 PM
I will not be a part of a games studio that is incapable of treating the player perspective with the level of respect it deserves. I've become a firm believer of the mentality that the best marketing a game can have is positive word of mouth, which many haven't realized will never happen if you don't place the community perspective on a high pedestal.

+1
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Hacker on September 20, 2016, 02:19:50 PM
Players are always entitled to their opinion.

Players are requested that they respect other players, and at least be respectful of staff. "Respect" is not confined to being agreeable. Respect can be displayed while also disagreeing or stating criticism.

OP should acknowledge that there are other perspectives on Drew's work, and that their own experience should be considered one version of a sample demographic. Another demographic exists that disagrees with their point of view.

All of these perspectives can co-exist in respect, don't lose sight of that. Don't let yourself become so absorbed that you can't see past the confined wisdom that we as humans all share.

These kinds of topics are a difficult pill to swallow for a CM, especially when there's a lot they cannot say or do with the handcuffs placed on them. It's one reason I've stepped away from the Video Game industry for such a time as I have, as I refuse to be a part of the bureaucracy and corporate nature I've been "Paid" to be a part of. I became very disillusioned and disheartened with the background mistreatment of player sentiment despite my best efforts.

I will not be a part of a games studio that is incapable of treating the player perspective with the level of respect it deserves. I've become a firm believer of the mentality that the best marketing a game can have is positive word of mouth, which many haven't realized will never happen if you don't place the community perspective on a high pedestal.

Players in our current generation are much more demanding than they were years ago, it's no longer enough to simply create a quality product. In the case of an Online Multiplayer Game there is much more that is necessary in modern game development. The longer studios put off proper User Engagement and Learning and use CM's as a Marketing tool rather than what we can truly do, the longer this industry will suffer.

I don't know where Yodmare is at with any of their original desires for Infinity Wars, but it looks like it's going nowhere fast and Drew is stuck in a very similar position I was in a little more than a year ago.

I love this game, and I really wish it could have been realized in all its potential glory.

Perhaps Drew hasn't been living up to your expectations, that's on him. I still see many of the standards I instilled in this community back in 2012 living today which I'm glad to see - hopefully that never dies.

With Love, Health, Happiness and Cheese ~

Teremus.

I think Teremus has hit the hail on the head, a game lives and dies on the happiness of its end users. Developers, programmers, card designers and company executives in the end manage the direction of a game but they need to listen to their player base.

I've been here more than three years now and when I joined there were a lot of Alpha players selling up and jumping ship due to poor communication and ongoing bugs. The bugs are slowly going away but others seem to pop up that we thought were eradicated. Communication and listening is something I became a mod to change. We have finally got a foot in the door again to look at balancing rebellion and hopefully reworking older cards at a later date that have lost their place in the game due to them being outdated by newer cards.

It is the players that are here day after day that see the issues and truly understand the intricacies of the game. Sitting behind a desk designing cards does not necessarily make you the best person to understand how to balance a game. If you do not play something of the nature of a complicated TCG like IW on a daily basis you don't see the potential problems with new cards or truly understand the frustrations of features that are not working correctly. The product needs to be smooth and the players are the ones who can help achieve this.

This doesn't mean that all our ideas will be grabbed with open arms, there are a lot of great minds in this game but no one person sees the whole picture.

The potential for this game is there as it always has been but to achieve what it should, it needs a lot more communication (which is two way).

In relation to Drew's performance I don't think you can fairly compare the role he has now with the role that Teremus did, his role was set up by Yodo and entails a lot of things that Teremus never had to worry about. The scope of the position is probably outside of what one person can handle with all the back end and administrative duties that have been added. he now has some additional support from the community Mod's who can provide assistance and answers to players questions and I would like to see these roles expanded going into the future.

 I would expect that Drew would now be able to keep to his proposed and promised timeframes for things he promises to the player base with the additional support he has and if not then perhaps his duties in relation to the role need to be looked at to ensure that he can fulfill the components that Yodo see as integral to his position and other tasks can be redirected to other staff or Mod's to make his core duties achievable.

I will end with this. For everyone from the top pf this game to the bottom, Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself. As a manger how do you wish to be treated by your staff and customers, as a customer how do you wish to be treated by the company who want your hard earned dollars.

What we have lost site of is that a community is everyone from the top to the bottom, from the community leaders down to the person working the fields. A little democratic behavior will go a long way in fixing many issues and helping the community to thrive, but fight amongst yourselves and the civil war will have no winners just a bleak outcome.

Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: largenuggets [BoD] on September 20, 2016, 03:05:55 PM
I think Teremus has hit the hail on the head, a game lives and dies on the happiness of its end users. Developers, programmers, card designers and company executives in the end manage the direction of a game but they need to listen to their player base.

I've been here more than three years now and when I joined there were a lot of Alpha players selling up and jumping ship due to poor communication and ongoing bugs. The bugs are slowly going away but others seem to pop up that we thought were eradicated. Communication and listening is something I became a mod to change. We have finally got a foot in the door again to look at balancing rebellion and hopefully reworking older cards at a later date that have lost their place in the game due to them being outdated by newer cards.

It is the players that are here day after day that see the issues and truly understand the intricacies of the game. Sitting behind a desk designing cards does not necessarily make you the best person to understand how to balance a game. If you do not play something of the nature of a complicated TCG like IW on a daily basis you don't see the potential problems with new cards or truly understand the frustrations of features that are not working correctly. The product needs to be smooth and the players are the ones who can help achieve this.

This doesn't mean that all our ideas will be grabbed with open arms, there are a lot of great minds in this game but no one person sees the whole picture.

The potential for this game is there as it always has been but to achieve what it should, it needs a lot more communication (which is two way).

In relation to Drew's performance I don't think you can fairly compare the role he has now with the role that Teremus did, his role was set up by Yodo and entails a lot of things that Teremus never had to worry about. The scope of the position is probably outside of what one person can handle with all the back end and administrative duties that have been added. he now has some additional support from the community Mod's who can provide assistance and answers to players questions and I would like to see these roles expanded going into the future.

 I would expect that Drew would now be able to keep to his proposed and promised timeframes for things he promises to the player base with the additional support he has and if not then perhaps his duties in relation to the role need to be looked at to ensure that he can fulfill the components that Yodo see as integral to his position and other tasks can be redirected to other staff or Mod's to make his core duties achievable.

I will end with this. For everyone from the top pf this game to the bottom, Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself. As a manger how do you wish to be treated by your staff and customers, as a customer how do you wish to be treated by the company who want your hard earned dollars.

What we have lost site of is that a community is everyone from the top to the bottom, from the community leaders down to the person working the fields. A little democratic behavior will go a long way in fixing many issues and helping the community to thrive, but fight amongst yourselves and the civil war will have no winners just a bleak outcome.

Wise words from a wise old man :P
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: quangtit01 on September 20, 2016, 03:58:32 PM
I think Teremus has hit the hail on the head, a game lives and dies on the happiness of its end users. Developers, programmers, card designers and company executives in the end manage the direction of a game but they need to listen to their player base.

I've been here more than three years now and when I joined there were a lot of Alpha players selling up and jumping ship due to poor communication and ongoing bugs. The bugs are slowly going away but others seem to pop up that we thought were eradicated. Communication and listening is something I became a mod to change. We have finally got a foot in the door again to look at balancing rebellion and hopefully reworking older cards at a later date that have lost their place in the game due to them being outdated by newer cards.

It is the players that are here day after day that see the issues and truly understand the intricacies of the game. Sitting behind a desk designing cards does not necessarily make you the best person to understand how to balance a game. If you do not play something of the nature of a complicated TCG like IW on a daily basis you don't see the potential problems with new cards or truly understand the frustrations of features that are not working correctly. The product needs to be smooth and the players are the ones who can help achieve this.

This doesn't mean that all our ideas will be grabbed with open arms, there are a lot of great minds in this game but no one person sees the whole picture.

The potential for this game is there as it always has been but to achieve what it should, it needs a lot more communication (which is two way).

In relation to Drew's performance I don't think you can fairly compare the role he has now with the role that Teremus did, his role was set up by Yodo and entails a lot of things that Teremus never had to worry about. The scope of the position is probably outside of what one person can handle with all the back end and administrative duties that have been added. he now has some additional support from the community Mod's who can provide assistance and answers to players questions and I would like to see these roles expanded going into the future.

 I would expect that Drew would now be able to keep to his proposed and promised timeframes for things he promises to the player base with the additional support he has and if not then perhaps his duties in relation to the role need to be looked at to ensure that he can fulfill the components that Yodo see as integral to his position and other tasks can be redirected to other staff or Mod's to make his core duties achievable.

I will end with this. For everyone from the top pf this game to the bottom, Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself. As a manger how do you wish to be treated by your staff and customers, as a customer how do you wish to be treated by the company who want your hard earned dollars.

What we have lost site of is that a community is everyone from the top to the bottom, from the community leaders down to the person working the fields. A little democratic behavior will go a long way in fixing many issues and helping the community to thrive, but fight amongst yourselves and the civil war will have no winners just a bleak outcome.

Wise words from a wise old man :P

iirc he's 50... A bit mindblowing to think abt
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: ES [BoD] on September 20, 2016, 05:03:03 PM
I think Teremus has hit the hail on the head, a game lives and dies on the happiness of its end users. Developers, programmers, card designers and company executives in the end manage the direction of a game but they need to listen to their player base.

I've been here more than three years now and when I joined there were a lot of Alpha players selling up and jumping ship due to poor communication and ongoing bugs. The bugs are slowly going away but others seem to pop up that we thought were eradicated. Communication and listening is something I became a mod to change. We have finally got a foot in the door again to look at balancing rebellion and hopefully reworking older cards at a later date that have lost their place in the game due to them being outdated by newer cards.

It is the players that are here day after day that see the issues and truly understand the intricacies of the game. Sitting behind a desk designing cards does not necessarily make you the best person to understand how to balance a game. If you do not play something of the nature of a complicated TCG like IW on a daily basis you don't see the potential problems with new cards or truly understand the frustrations of features that are not working correctly. The product needs to be smooth and the players are the ones who can help achieve this.

This doesn't mean that all our ideas will be grabbed with open arms, there are a lot of great minds in this game but no one person sees the whole picture.

The potential for this game is there as it always has been but to achieve what it should, it needs a lot more communication (which is two way).

In relation to Drew's performance I don't think you can fairly compare the role he has now with the role that Teremus did, his role was set up by Yodo and entails a lot of things that Teremus never had to worry about. The scope of the position is probably outside of what one person can handle with all the back end and administrative duties that have been added. he now has some additional support from the community Mod's who can provide assistance and answers to players questions and I would like to see these roles expanded going into the future.

 I would expect that Drew would now be able to keep to his proposed and promised timeframes for things he promises to the player base with the additional support he has and if not then perhaps his duties in relation to the role need to be looked at to ensure that he can fulfill the components that Yodo see as integral to his position and other tasks can be redirected to other staff or Mod's to make his core duties achievable.

I will end with this. For everyone from the top pf this game to the bottom, Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself. As a manger how do you wish to be treated by your staff and customers, as a customer how do you wish to be treated by the company who want your hard earned dollars.

What we have lost site of is that a community is everyone from the top to the bottom, from the community leaders down to the person working the fields. A little democratic behavior will go a long way in fixing many issues and helping the community to thrive, but fight amongst yourselves and the civil war will have no winners just a bleak outcome.

Wise words from a wise old man :P

iirc he's 50... A bit mindblowing to think abt
Hacker be like (http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/48656786chgbh_sm.jpg)  :P
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: ORISOLVE on September 20, 2016, 05:59:14 PM
What we have lost site of is that a community is everyone from the top to the bottom, from the community leaders down to the person working the fields. A little democratic behavior will go a long way in fixing many issues and helping the community to thrive, but fight amongst yourselves and the civil war will have no winners just a bleak outcome.

TRIGGERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
INCITE ALL OVER AGAIN


I will end with this. For everyone from the top pf this game to the bottom, Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself. As a manger how do you wish to be treated by your staff and customers, as a customer how do you wish to be treated by the company who want your hard earned dollars.

That is what many of us have been doing. We are holding someone else to the standards we have instilled onto ourselves. I for one would never break a promise. Do you know how this is possible? I never make promises, I don't keep. I don't think I'd ever break a promise unless I had good reason to, like to save a loved one's life. Knowing that I have honored every single promise in my life helps me sleep soundly at night. As for missed deadlines, that is hardly ever an issue for me, I can recognize an impossible deadline when I see one. All of Drew's deadlines have not been impossible. Granted I don't know what he does behind the scenes, but basically from what I've seen and done, I could have English translation texts & flavor texts edited and updated within a week or two. (I manually went over, typed and edited all the texts on the Descendants of the Dragons Faction minus the Flavor Text in a matter of 3 hours for fun) But something as simple as Tournament prize distribution seems like something I could do within 1 hour after a Tournament. (Excuse I'd accept for Drew is if the Prize Distribution is broken) (Excuse I wouldn't accept, Tournament Prize Distribution broken by Developers) In a position of power, I would never belittle another. Very similar to Teremus's ideologies, everyone's opinion is valid. Like you said everyone should be treated as you expect to be treated yourself (Golden Rule). I have learned to tolerate Pupils & even Liquidavatar, when at first we didn't even see eye to eye on many things, especially their personalities. To me it seems almost impossible to get into such petty arguments with people as kind as Adorabear, Pelagoth, NTL, etc. I have and will give Drew the benefit of the doubt with regards to personal relations because it's likely that the emotional discharge of the players frustration on the game have been redirected to Drew. We all know the customer is not always right, but it's best to make them seem like they are always right. Sometimes they are right, and it is a good idea to listen to them, especially when customers are the ones who pay the wages of the developers. Both the developers and Drew, seem to have a very narrow view of what is best for the game and its future. But like Drew has said, if we don't like the game we can always leave. This is my least favorite option, but if this is the only option I'm not going to stay, trying to convince deaf ears. There are better options for developers instead of saying "If you don't like what we are doing, leave." They can probably compromise with player demands. But overall, all this talk is meaningless if the most important core necessities of a game aren't delivered such as Bug Fixes. What you hope for, what you wish for, what you expect to happen, won't, unless it can be physically be done. And as far as we have seen, it doesn't seem likely. Have I lost all hope? No, I'm not a person who loses hope, ever. But that's more along the lines of my personality and has nothing to do with what LM has done or hasn't done. But I do expect more from both the community, Drew, and especially the Developers.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Wayfinder1026 on September 21, 2016, 05:42:30 AM
Hmm... The only thing more annoying than this thread is the fallen momentum of the game.

I left this game for a while for school and work reasons. After getting used to my new schedule I stayed gone out of disappointment for the state of the game. But I've come back because I just can't stay away from this game. I love it. I really do. All I can think about is how much better it could have been by now if they did things a little differently. After reading everything, the game does feel like it's dying again. And I think the community has fallen again. I play much more often now and I'm running into the same players again and not into new players like before. -sigh-
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Klassick on September 21, 2016, 10:12:12 PM


(http://www.relatably.com/m/img/positive-memes-funny/85843d1329723936t-motivational-demotivational-funny-posters-gifs-memes-thread-ce39547c9229fb589561cbe07179a2a2ef755132_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: NTL on September 21, 2016, 11:43:22 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/qKR6nfB.jpg)
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Interesting_Socks on November 01, 2016, 01:37:36 AM
Bump
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: ORISOLVE on November 01, 2016, 02:55:05 AM
Please cease with the bumping of this thread.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: MerliniX on November 01, 2016, 03:19:46 AM
Please cease with the bumping of this thread.

Why? It's not like any of the complaints here have been addressed, much less rectified.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: OneTwo on November 01, 2016, 07:15:09 AM
As long as there is no sign that the CEOs and "real" Devs reading this forum, there is no need in bumping anything.

This forum sucks heavily. 10 people are frequently writing nearly the same stuff till months/years, you dont get in touch with any responsible guys from the company and its hosted by a CM who doesnt care in any way for the community.

If i would be a CEO, i wouldnt look into the forums as well. Its nothing than a complete wall of shame!
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: goobypls on November 01, 2016, 09:17:06 AM
Well, it turned into a wall of shame because they never read the forums in the first place lol

Nah they're fine, I was just messing with you. I think everybody who had certain expectations of the game's development, should've probably let them go by now. It's been idk 5 years since this game launched it's kickstarter? Better enjoy what the game is still about, than stress about what you'd have wanted it to be.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Zyhm on November 01, 2016, 02:00:47 PM
This is a card game, not a social simulator. I've played this game on and off for 3 years and I've never had any problems with Drew, if anything Drew is the most CM interaction I'm currently getting a side from getting matched against ES in ranked.

I assume that Community manager would imply a work regarding community, not programming, I wouldn't be surprised if he has no access to source code at all, and people keep bugging him about bugs directly instead of posting them on forum.

I've noticed a lot of hate directed to Drew about the lack of weekly posts. Almost like there would be a new massive content patch coming out very soon, maybe even under NDA. How weird would it be that LM teams current effort is going to the new content and not much else. So I dont know why people keep crying about the lack of weekly posts if there is nothing Drew could write about in them.

But then again I'm here for the gameplay, not the chat box. I do not see any immediate or noticeable change in my daily experience with IW even if Drew would get fired or not, assuming that someone else can perform Drews tasks to the same extent or better.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Roderick on November 02, 2016, 07:48:00 AM
This is a card game, not a social simulator. I've played this game on and off for 3 years and I've never had any problems with Drew, if anything Drew is the most CM interaction I'm currently getting a side from getting matched against ES in ranked.

I assume that Community manager would imply a work regarding community, not programming, I wouldn't be surprised if he has no access to source code at all, and people keep bugging him about bugs directly instead of posting them on forum.

I've noticed a lot of hate directed to Drew about the lack of weekly posts. Almost like there would be a new massive content patch coming out very soon, maybe even under NDA. How weird would it be that LM teams current effort is going to the new content and not much else. So I dont know why people keep crying about the lack of weekly posts if there is nothing Drew could write about in them.

But then again I'm here for the gameplay, not the chat box. I do not see any immediate or noticeable change in my daily experience with IW even if Drew would get fired or not, assuming that someone else can perform Drews tasks to the same extent or better.
For a multiplayer game, such as iw, the community and social aspect is a huge part in making the game successful.
Take for example a look at wow, definitely the most concrete example. Now imagine playing wow solo....Would you play it for months on end, for $20 a month?
If that doesn't sell you, look at magic the gathering, or yugioh. They spread by word of mouth, and by other people playing it. The social aspect is what keeps a game alive, and in a game dependent on multiplayer w/o it that game will slowly die.

Then again, we're already past that point with iw unless a miracle happens.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Zyhm on November 02, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
I'm here for the gameplay, not the chat box.
For a multiplayer game, such as iw, the community and social aspect is a huge part in making the game successful.
Take for example a look at wow, definitely the most concrete example. Now imagine playing wow solo....Would you play it for months on end, for $20 a month?
If that doesn't sell you, look at magic the gathering, or yugioh. They spread by word of mouth, and by other people playing it. The social aspect is what keeps a game alive, and in a game dependent on multiplayer w/o it that game will slowly die.

Then again, we're already past that point with iw unless a miracle happens.

Alright, lets sidetrack and discuss my personal preference in gaming instead of addressing points about Drew. This comment will not add much to the actual topic, I'll just be replying to Roderick.


Magic has never been popular in my part of the world, I did enjoy the steam versions of it, until the duels.

Yogioh was very popular during my childhood(ish), it spread by word of mouth, a fully animated TV characters mouth. I'd say that if IW had an 250 episode Anime as a marketing tool, it could do a bit better with playerbase. Once the anime stopped airing, its popularity dropped drastically, it is now very hard to find yogioh packs in shops and I havent seen anyone playing it in years.

Now to more interesting stuff:
I did play WoW BC, WotLK, and start of the Cataclysm pretty much alone progressing my character.
With cataclysm Guild Wars 2 was also released and I switched to that because it had more engaging combat.  I'm still playing it.
http://i.imgur.com/uc1omzw.png
I wouldnt really call my guild that active in a game about guilds and wars.

Even tho its an MMO, I'm satisfied if I can spend about 10 minutes or less to find 4 other blokes to play the dungeon with.(Optionally to never see them again). I've had a few fun times when interacting with people, tho I wouldn't say that I'm playing GW2 because of that at all.

Path of exile is also a game I often play, even tho it too functions as an MMO, I treat it as a full on single player experience ignoring all players as much as possible, playing maps alone, disabling all chats and not trading at all.

To conclude, I do not believe that social aspect is not a huge part in making a game successful. New simcity and diablo 3 could even be considered worse due to the social aspect, where as Dwarf Fortress is being updated for 12 years now without it at all.
If infinity wars finds me an opponent in less than 5 minutes, it has succeeded to entertain me.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: wooferdog on November 02, 2016, 10:37:53 PM
To conclude, I do not believe that social aspect is not a huge part in making a game successful. New simcity and diablo 3 could even be considered worse due to the social aspect, where as Dwarf Fortress is being updated for 12 years now without it at all.
If infinity wars finds me an opponent in less than 5 minutes, it has succeeded to entertain me.

I personally hate forced socialising with people in games over the Internet and agree with your statements regarding Diablo and Simcity as these are games which should be single player first with optional community features, not redesigned as community driven games with single player elements.

But I also believe that games which require 1vs1+ to be functional (basically every card game but Hex, MMOs, team based FPS, etc) need good community engagement from the creators otherwise they are doomed. If the creators make a fun and vibrant community, then it will attract fun and vibrant people which will create a fun and vibrant game experience for all players.

On topic: We were spoiled by have Teremus as the last community person - he put way too much of himself into making the community what it is today, and he suffered personally for it. Drew is not Teremus and is doing things his own way. If he is employed by Yodomare then at the end of the day it doesn't matter what we think/want, it matters what his bosses want.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: Zyhm on November 04, 2016, 09:45:35 AM
Community however can as well ruin the game, for example LoL and Dota2.

The question we should be asking regarding the social aspect of the games is:
Are people playing it because they want to play it with someone, or are people playing it to spend time with their friends?

For all the arguments about how Magic is driven only by community tend to forget that Magic isn't online, you can't play against anyone from anywhere so vast population of magic players are mostly irrelevant for anyone playing. Magic is played by people to spend time with their friends.

Of course 1v1 games need an opponent to be played, but community is not meant to serve the game,rather games are meant to serve the community. If you don't have anyone to play with, its not the games fault that you don't have any friends.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: belial12 on November 04, 2016, 02:28:56 PM

He is rarely online in game, what is one of, if not the most important part of his job, at least most visible for community.
He often cancels tournaments without any advance notice (so players keep wasting time on waiting) and there isn't shadow of remorse in CM after that.
We virtually must beg him to do his job, constantly reminding about weekly posts and tourneys.
He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation: http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0 (http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0)
It was direct blow in future game income, since russian market is huge thus important.

From time to time our 'great' CM disappears like Houdini for few hours or days and literally no one has the slightest idea where... Quite admirable feat, unfortunately not too useful since community manager is 24/7 job.

 

Holy hell, the first link is broken since it shows nothing of the sort, Drew himself even commented and "He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation"? fix your link or you are just trying to mislead us.

and he's rarely online? seriously? most time I play his online, and if you are going to persuade me you better provide some real evidence.

this post read like the stuff I got every election year, lots of claim with not proof.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: mew28 on November 04, 2016, 08:15:42 PM

He is rarely online in game, what is one of, if not the most important part of his job, at least most visible for community.
He often cancels tournaments without any advance notice (so players keep wasting time on waiting) and there isn't shadow of remorse in CM after that.
We virtually must beg him to do his job, constantly reminding about weekly posts and tourneys.
He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation: http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0 (http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0)
It was direct blow in future game income, since russian market is huge thus important.

From time to time our 'great' CM disappears like Houdini for few hours or days and literally no one has the slightest idea where... Quite admirable feat, unfortunately not too useful since community manager is 24/7 job.

 

Holy hell, the first link is broken since it shows nothing of the sort, Drew himself even commented and "He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation"? fix your link or you are just trying to mislead us.

and he's rarely online? seriously? most time I play his online, and if you are going to persuade me you better provide some real evidence.

this post read like the stuff I got every election year, lots of claim with not proof.
Please do share when you play because I am lucky to see him once a week and I play 30+ hours a week when I am active.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: belial12 on November 05, 2016, 04:24:54 AM

He is rarely online in game, what is one of, if not the most important part of his job, at least most visible for community.
He often cancels tournaments without any advance notice (so players keep wasting time on waiting) and there isn't shadow of remorse in CM after that.
We virtually must beg him to do his job, constantly reminding about weekly posts and tourneys.
He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation: http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0 (http://forum.lightmare.com.au/index.php?topic=66421.0)
It was direct blow in future game income, since russian market is huge thus important.

From time to time our 'great' CM disappears like Houdini for few hours or days and literally no one has the slightest idea where... Quite admirable feat, unfortunately not too useful since community manager is 24/7 job.

 

Holy hell, the first link is broken since it shows nothing of the sort, Drew himself even commented and "He single-handedly paralyzed russian translation"? fix your link or you are just trying to mislead us.

and he's rarely online? seriously? most time I play his online, and if you are going to persuade me you better provide some real evidence.

this post read like the stuff I got every election year, lots of claim with not proof.
Please do share when you play because I am lucky to see him once a week and I play 30+ hours a week when I am active.
sure, I don't play that much but I usually do the dailies in the evening or from 4am to 3pm, and the chance of me seeing him in any given moment in anytime in one day is about 50%.
Title: Re: Evaluation of DrewUniverse as CM
Post by: keyranaway on November 06, 2016, 11:51:18 PM
Right now drew is nowhere to be seen and there was a tournament that he was meant to host. No one could get hold of him or find him so it had to be made by ES luckily the tourney went on.