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The IW Community => Community Content => Guides => Topic started by: CommunistMountain on December 07, 2015, 10:16:31 AM

Title: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 07, 2015, 10:16:31 AM
In every game, one should predict what to anticipate from the opponent based on their deck Purity, and take precautions as necessary, or at least know what to expect. I hope this list will be especially useful for new players. Test yourself: how many cards did you forget even existed?

Note that the list only includes cards which require prediction for a precaution. For instance, it does not include most, if not all characters with activated abilities as they must be in play before they get to activate their abilities, giving you at least 1 turn to react. Granted, one might want to plan 2 or more turns ahead, but then I have to list almost every card in Infinity Wars, which makes the list pointless.

The list does not include non-Core cards such as from the Star Trek set.

Cards are divided into factions, further divided into their required Purities, and sorted by cost. Cards with Dual Purity will be listed separately, and Hybrid cards will be listed twice in their respective factions, in 1 Purity subcategories. Common threats of significance, or threats too impactful to ignore even if they are rarely seen, are bolded.

Characters with Haste, Charge or Vigilance are grouped together within Purity subcategories if that's their only ability which requires precaution. Of course, if the character is the only one able to be grouped that way within the subcategory, there's no point in grouping. If the character has more abilities worth keeping in mind, such as Nix, it will not be included in these groups.

Factionless

Flame Dawn

Warpath

Genesis Industries

Descendants of the Dragon

Cult of Verore

Exiles

Overseers of Solace

Sleepers of Avarrach

CoV+DoD: [4]Jade Witch (if the opponent has at least 1 Verore card for Overcharge)
CoV+OoS: [2]Angel's Bane (if the opponent has at least 1 Overseers card for Overcharge), [1]Regicide
CoV+SoA: [4]Infest
DoD+Ex: [4]Tibat, the Mad Monk
DoD+FD: [4]The Strength of Unity
DoD+GI: [4]Enlightenator XT2500 (if the opponent has at least 1 Dragon Descendants card for Overcharge)
DoD+SoA: [4]Infested Hero
Ex+FD: [6]Lost Knight (if the opponent has at least 1 Flame Dawn card for Overcharge)
Ex+WP: [3]Spawn, Fierce Companion, [4]Once Was Clean (if the opponent has at least 1 Exiles card for Overcharge)
Ex+SoA: [5]No More Heroes
FD+OoS: [3]Ferocious Flyer
FD+SoA: [4]Infested Knight
GI+WP: [3]Dragon Collar
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: SwatAK on December 07, 2015, 01:27:57 PM
ty for ur hard work!
i think hilderic's base cost is 15 not 17 but im not really sure.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: Klassick on December 07, 2015, 02:16:42 PM
Excelent work.

Once more, you show why you are one of the most notorious members of the game.

Permit me to thank you not only for this, but 4 all the services to the Community you did and keep on doing.

P.S. [4] Spirit of the Ancient Guardians is one/single purity
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 07, 2015, 04:06:23 PM
Glad you guys appreciate it!

i think hilderic's base cost is 15 not 17 but im not really sure.
P.S. [4] Spirit of the Ancient Guardians is one/single purity

Thanks for pointing these mistakes out.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: ToxicShadow on December 07, 2015, 05:59:26 PM
Great list, thank you for making it!

I would like to suggest the addition of a card, i think Give Him A Jetpack for 1 purity gi might be worth mentioning. :)
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: SwatAK on December 07, 2015, 07:00:01 PM
i just noticed that theres also a mistake with vasir the chained prince's cost.he's a 7 cost.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 08, 2015, 12:58:40 AM
i just noticed that theres also a mistake with vasir the chained prince's cost.he's a 7 cost.
Whoops, I meant his final(?) form. Should I mention both, though? Or neither, since their abilities can be dealt with without precaution in most cases? I was thinking that as a precaution for the final form, one can play a token generation card beforehand.

Honestly, 70% of the time spent making this was used to ponder on whether or not certain cards should be in the list, and 10% on which ones to bold haha.

I would like to suggest the addition of a card, i think Give Him A Jetpack for 1 purity gi might be worth mentioning. :)
Good idea.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: SwatAK on December 08, 2015, 12:17:32 PM
i dont think u should include him or the chained one. he very rarely sees play and even if he did his effect is not impactful and it can easily backfire.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 08, 2015, 12:46:42 PM
i dont think u should include him or the chained one. he very rarely sees play and even if he did his effect is not impactful and it can easily backfire.
The popularity and impact of cards are not criteria for this list. As you can see, some things listed here are rarely used, such as Vengeful Warrior, but are still worth listing because of the fact that he has Vigilance.

The only criteria is whether or not the card requires prediction before it is played for a precaution to be taken.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: Klassick on December 08, 2015, 06:32:39 PM
Well, there are some cards that maybe, you can give a second look:

Jialan, Demon of Dark Bargain, Tome of the Dead, Champion's Herald, Heaven's Assistance, Herald of Dawn, Cavalry Paladin.

But, you are "the one who jugdes", so, I leave it up to you :-)

Again, excellent work.

See ya!
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: Benionin on December 08, 2015, 07:58:30 PM
Jialan, Demon of Dark Bargain, Tome of the Dead, Champion's Herald, Heaven's Assistance, Herald of Dawn, Cavalry Paladin.

Jialan and Cav Paladin each have vigilance/charge, and should therefore each be on the list (Jialan already is). As for the others, I think once played they allow time for response and don't necessarily require prediction per se (going by the qualifications that were set up in the original post). Herald of Dawn might have an argument as it gives something else charge, but even so you get to see it get played and have a turn to prepare, so it doesn't really require prediction. Tome of the Dead has a delayed trigger (but on the other hand you still might want to keep it in mind), Heaven's Assistance likewise doesn't immediately affect the battlefield (unless you have Iruel or Force Against the Law, I guess), and Champion's Herald isn't important to predict until it actually hits the field.
I dunno about Demon of Dark Bargain though. Does the cost reduction go into effect immediately or at the start of the next turn--and does it let your opponent play more cards than they would have if they didn't spend the resources on the Demon in the first place?
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: SwatAK on December 08, 2015, 08:22:53 PM
his effect goes immediatly if i remember correctly, u can play him then instantly abuse his ability.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: zakmackay on December 08, 2015, 10:41:12 PM
I would like to add cavalry paladin. I once had it in my side boarded for control and people have just flopped to it. Deathraying the paladin is a dumb move. Also mass death when just the paladins are lethal. Its also a 12/8 so its a pretty high power charge minion.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 09, 2015, 01:43:47 AM
Jialan, Demon of Dark Bargain, Tome of the Dead, Champion's Herald, Heaven's Assistance, Herald of Dawn, Cavalry Paladin.

Oh my, I somehow missed Cavalry Paladin. Thanks for pointing that out.

The thing about Tome of the Dead is that all its counters only need to be played when its killing ability activates, such as Fiery Resolve, Resolute Initiative, Intervention, TMRS, CTA etc. One could argue that predicting Tome before it is played and not playing characters is a form of precaution one can take, and I completely agree, but I thought it would be too infeasible. Now that I think about it, infeasibility shouldn't be an issue, so I'll add Tome.

Demon of Dark Bargain simply enables other cards on the list to be played cheaper, so it doesn't deserve to be mentioned.

My reasons for not including the rest are already stated by Benionin, thanks.


EDIT: Bolded Paladin of the Flame Dawn and Agent Coyle, Firestarter, because reasons. Those added were bolded too.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: ToxicShadow on December 09, 2015, 04:22:34 PM
I also have three more suggestions:

Corrupted Celestial Dragon and Melosia, Champion of Despair. Their effects are active the turn they are deployed and they dont have to be on the battlefield for it.

And Gao Han, Champion of Warding. He has vigilance so he qualifies anyways, but due to his vigilance his effect will most likely also be active the turn he is played.

Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 09, 2015, 11:49:49 PM
I thought Melosia's ability only triggers when she is on the battlefield, and thought Champion Gao Han doesn't have Vigilance, my bad.

Corrupted Celestial Dragon's ability is only triggered by other cards, and as a rule of thumb I don't list cards which require other cards on the list to work. For instance, I did not list Verore Magic Siphoner as it only applies for this list if moved to the Battlefield by another card, even though combos with Ferocity or Word of Command is very common. Besides, since Corrupted Celestial Dragon is very expensive, and unless you have at least 2 extra Resources for Adaptive Drone, you wouldn't be able to exploit its ability on the turn it's played.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: ToxicShadow on December 10, 2015, 04:23:08 PM
I disagree and I think while Corrupted Celestial Dragon is surely best used as combo card, he can't just be compared to Siphoner. Unlike Siphoner, he applies a global effect to the game. If your opponent by chance plays any healing ability the turn you deploy the dragon, that ability will be negated (he receives as much damage as he heals). Granted, the possibility of that happening is highly unlikely and with his high cost you won't see him played to counter a predicted healing, but as you said earlier about Vasir, you want to mention all the cards regardless of how good they are. Also, he can be combined with other cards from outside the list, like Field Engineer, to deal damage the turn he is deployed (however, cards like Solace's peace are much more effective, of course).

That being said, it is your list and I don't think that he is of such importance that he must necessarily be mentioned, just wanted to explain my train of thought on that.

I also would not add tome, because it has no immideate effect the turn it is played and leaves you with a couple of turns to react to it. It is not like you will make plans for the case that your opponent could possibly play tome of the dead this turn and adapt your strategy because you want to anticipate that a tome might be played this very turn, it is more like you see him play the tome and deal with it then (or maybe that is just me :) ).

And just because I saw it played recently and depending on your deck it is something you might want to be prepared to see, I would like to also suggest Grave Rob. Can be pretty sad if your Last Sleeper just disappears from game :).
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: Klassick on December 10, 2015, 05:13:28 PM
And just because I saw it played recently and depending on your deck it is something you might want to be prepared to see, I would like to also suggest Grave Rob. Can be pretty sad if your Last Sleeper just disappears from game :).

I agree.

I do not like to interfere too and I do consider that I don't have the same knowledge of the game as players like Benionin or CommunistMountain but, what ToxicShadow has said about Grave Rob must be considered. By the way, if purify is at the list, maybe the same reasons of including it applies to Grave Rob.

Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: Benionin on December 10, 2015, 08:14:16 PM
I don't know if I would call myself especially knowledgeable--I've just been around for a while.

But yeah, Grave Rob. That thing. If I try to res something and my opponent grave robs it, do I get the res? Just curious. I would think Grave Rob would negate it (removing the character from the game so it's no longer a legal target and all) but you can never know...
The other reason to worry about Grave Rob would be if you're actually counting the number of characters in your grave, like with Infested Knight or Hulker.

It's funny how easy it is to miss cards--for anybody. Major props to CommunistMountain for putting all of this together in the first place, though.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: ToxicShadow on December 10, 2015, 09:14:32 PM
But yeah, Grave Rob. That thing. If I try to res something and my opponent grave robs it, do I get the res? Just curious. I would think Grave Rob would negate it.

That is pretty much what happened to me and why i suggested Grave Rob. You don't get the card you wanted to rez. And grave rob is even preemptive, so priority does not matter.

It's funny how easy it is to miss cards--for anybody. Major props to CommunistMountain for putting all of this together in the first place, though.

Can only agree on that.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on December 11, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
I disagree and I think while Corrupted Celestial Dragon is surely best used as combo card, he can't just be compared to Siphoner. Unlike Siphoner, he applies a global effect to the game. If your opponent by chance plays any healing ability the turn you deploy the dragon, that ability will be negated (he receives as much damage as he heals). Granted, the possibility of that happening is highly unlikely and with his high cost you won't see him played to counter a predicted healing, but as you said earlier about Vasir, you want to mention all the cards regardless of how good they are. Also, he can be combined with other cards from outside the list, like Field Engineer, to deal damage the turn he is deployed (however, cards like Solace's peace are much more effective, of course).
Good point!

I'll add Corrupted Celestial Dragon and Grave Rob.

I also would not add tome, because it has no immediate effect the turn it is played and leaves you with a couple of turns to react to it. It is not like you will make plans for the case that your opponent could possibly play tome of the dead this turn and adapt your strategy because you want to anticipate that a tome might be played this very turn, it is more like you see him play the tome and deal with it then (or maybe that is just me :) ).
Yep, that was my original train of thought. Some people might want to keep Tome in mind and not play as many characters as they would if they did not keep it in mind, so I added that in.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: Wham on January 22, 2016, 03:12:28 AM
Hey hey, I've been taking a look at this and it seems like there are an excessive amounts of cards here.

Some abbreviated lists.

Factionless


Flame Dawn
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on November 12, 2016, 08:44:30 AM
As I've said above, I include all cards which may be a threat one must take precautions for before they are played, no matter how unpopular they are.

Updated for Rebellion. For certain cards which are only single purity but require Overcharging with another faction's card to be qualified for this list, I included them under the multi-faction list at the bottom.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: ToxicShadow on November 12, 2016, 12:43:36 PM
Thanks for your work and keeping this updated.

I just noticed that you didn't correct some of the balance changes made to older cards:

Intimidating Rally and Jinhai Ambush are both 2 purity now. Ferocity only costs 2, and Volatile Genome costs 5 now (not that it matters, it is still way too bad).

Also arguably Descension deserves to be bold since a good descension can eat an entire line of attackers, but that is only my opinion.
Title: Re: Cards to Keep in Mind Against Certain Purity Combinations
Post by: CommunistMountain on November 13, 2016, 01:22:17 AM
Thanks for your work and keeping this updated.

I just noticed that you didn't correct some of the balance changes made to older cards:

Intimidating Rally and Jinhai Ambush are both 2 purity now. Ferocity only costs 2, and Volatile Genome costs 5 now (not that it matters, it is still way too bad).

Also arguably Descension deserves to be bold since a good descension can eat an entire line of attackers, but that is only my opinion.
Nice eye, thanks! I haven't been active in the game until recently, so I'm out of touch of these changes haha.

Yeah I know Descension should be bolded, not sure why me-from-the-past did not do so.