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Infinity Wars => Cards and Factions => General Game Discussion => Descendants of the Dragon => Topic started by: Moonblade92 on September 11, 2015, 12:03:08 AM

Title: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Moonblade92 on September 11, 2015, 12:03:08 AM
So, I've been playing infinity Wars on and off since before order came out. For all that time, DoD was my faithful companion faction, as I was a great fan of their game design of steadfast defenders who won be wearing the enemy down, and of course, their reliance of the Morale mechanic in order to come out on top.

It wasn't the most successful deck, and over time I learned that it teethered heavily on my Avatar of Lingbao and generally ignorance of the matchup from my enemies in order to work, like people diving into a Palanax Commander and a number of Invincible Defenders.

Traditionally, it was a very good matchup to aggressive decks with low HP cards, but weak versus many other things, like ramp and control decks. However, with the release of Opression, things changed. This deck, regarded as one of the weakest, actually made great use out of a few of the new cards given, specifically Counting the Days and Pacifying Winds. The issue, as it turned out to be, was that other decks could put those cards to MUCH greater effect.

So, the troublesome cards had to be nerfed. Which is acceptable, but now, at this point in time, Moralle DoD, regarded as one of the weakest decks in the game, has lost a very, VERY important thing. The motivation to make the enemy commit.

With the old 3 DoD Moralle decks, there was the omnipresent, looming threat of a sudden Avatar of Lingbao, as his old incarnation was a complete gamestopper, often winning the game.
The enemy needed to win or to commit to cutting away your key cards before you could play this combo.
 
Once he was changed to his new version, that motivation was gone. He COULD be blocked, and you needed to make a choice of weather you want him to defend or attack. Interactivity was gained, but this meant that 3 DoD was at a loss. They had no reliable way to stop an enemy from just waiting out turns until they draw a card that will just turn the game to their favor (Calamity, but that is a different can of snakes), provided they have powerful enough blockers. Counting the Days became the "new Avatar of Lingbao", making the enemy rush to win the game, and giving you a way to win should the enemy play around your traditional method of winning (like a Verore player just removing any unit you put out until you run out of cards).

And to remedy the onslaught of boring, borderline unstoppable stall decks that flourished, Pacifying Winds and Counting the Days were changed (Counting the Days for the better, Pacifying Winds into a worse Disarm IMO), but this created an issue (combined with the fix to how combat damage was calculated) which can simply be summed up as "3 P DoD needs the enemy to attack" (2 of your units need to be on the field to deal morale dmg, 2 need to take dmg, 1 needs to die and 2 need to attack the enemy fort). Should your enemy not attack, you amount to nothing. The primary morale dmg units DoD possesses are usually not reliable in a fight compared to most their equal cost counterparts (They can trade even with most same price OS, FD and CoV counterparts, but almost always lose out in all other matchups), meaning it's EXTREMELY hard to establish board control, and even then, once you do, what then? Wait until your enemy draws his Calamity, Omnitron or what have you?

What it all boils down to is this. In it's present state, Moralle DoD is WILDLY inefficient to use, with only two card that present an active threat to enemy morale, Glorious Warrior and Inpiring Soldier, and they also mean that you can't bring in your defense line, but you ALSO can not risk losing them AND the rest of their morale breaking kit relying on the enemy attacking them (there is Spirit of the Serpent too, yes, but it's slow, weak, blockable and costs 4, it's outclassed in every way by Glorious), but, with these latest changes, they have NO WAY to force the enemy to do anything but block.

If you can stop that Avatar from breaking trough, you can just cycle trough your deck until you draw what you need, and win. They can't deal guaranteed, amplifiable (via Lingbao) morale DMG other than the Avatar as long as you can remove Glorious Warrior and Inspiring Soldier. And in most cases, their own control and removal aren't dangerous enough to warrant any special precautions (3 Humble and 3 Yuanshi's Wrath are all a Moralle 3 DoD player brings into the fight as far as removal goes) as long as you don't go on the offense.

So yeah I'd like to point out that while I agree that Counting the Days and Pacifying Winds were not good for the game at their state, as is not, a deck type is very underpowered, having lost all their Win Conditions and gaining none in return. I love DoD and I'm sad that it seems like they are changing to be a strictly fighting faction with a lot of utility cards they will never use again.

But more than a rant, this is an attempt to bring this matter to fore, as few people seem to ever talk about it inside the game, as well as all matters pure DoD in general. I encourage any and all thoughts to be made public. Who knows, maybe we will find to make 3 DoD Morale good again as it is?

But in the case it isn't I just want to point out that these new tools, while great for the faction as a whole, are effectively making a VERY great deal of cards obsolete and unplayed, and I think that it should be taken into consideration how changing a problematic couple of cards will quickly shoehorn a facton into a very rigid set of options. DoD especially so, as they have always had problems with Tempo, card combo dependability (many DoD cards are useless on their own and never see play without their "pairs") and low offense, while now they have "Cards strictly better/worse than other available options" and "no control" as one of their problems.

lastly I apologize for mentioning "DoD needs the enemy to attack" and a different variation of that theme over 5 times, but after over 1000 games of 3 P Moralle DoD I found that there really is no other way around it.

tl;dr
Post problems and solutions to problems of Morale 3p DoD decks. No comment is unwelcome, no opinion is discarded!
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: MerliniX on September 11, 2015, 12:22:12 AM
I don't think 'shoehorning' a 3p deck into a particular playstyle or options is a bad or even unprecedented thing. In fact, just about all 3p decks if they want to be competitive are basically shoehorned into playing virtual carbon copies of the same lists.

If you want variety and options, don't play 3 purity, that's why other factions exist in the first place, and morale out decks are alive and well if you add verore into the mix for cards like demoralize.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Moonblade92 on September 11, 2015, 11:19:36 AM
I haven't said it's unprecedented, but it does feel bad to me. Verore, Sleepers, GI and Exiles have different ways they can be played as 3 Purity. They might not be as optimal as ONE TO RULE THEM ALL, supreme version of 3 P, but they do work more or less consistently (You still see Omnitron or Landstead decks played, as well as Verore who play on their Dragons and Apparitions, etc).
But more than nerfing or buffing a specific deck, this is a matter of faction identity. IW factions were originally all about a certain facet or play style they excel at. Presently, the "identity" of DoD decks is that they are basically Warpath with a bit of GI, punching trough the opposition via brute force.

That is why I feel that this decline of DoD Morale decks should not be allowed. And yes, I am well aware that you can make mixed decks, and in fact I've had good results with 1 DoD 2 CoV decks, but calling that a DoD deck would be factually wrong, as it used a small margin of DoD cards (9 of them specifically, 3 Wrath, 3 Will and 3 Spirit of Ancient Guardian, of which only Will of Lingbao was completely mandatory).
I've tried to play some decks based around Ju-Lin and they KINDA work, but the feeling remains that he is just as effective in a brute force deck as he is in a different one (and he is actually better in a 2 DoD/1 Exiles deck).

Overall what I'm going for is that I don't mind changes to the faction in general (I've had good fun during Order even if the new cards hadn't been too good for DoD for the better part), but I DO mind that while every other faction has kept their identity so far, only DoD is played contrary to it now, as all their tools that facilitated morale play options got removed (again, this is the issue of making a faction so ridiculously combo centric, messing with one card has the potential to wreak havoc on the entire faction).

Imagine if GI had almost all their Pump/Buffing options removed. I bet people wouldn't be happy. The situation here is exactly the same, 'cept fewer people cared about Morale decks in the first place, due to their playstyle being so passive. Spirit of the Serpent was certainly a step in the right direction, the problem is, since it was a weak card, and wasn't seeing play, that venue of DoD isn't developed enough to work yet (only other card to do something like it is Avatar of Lingbao, Monkey is a combo card that isn't too great on it's own, while Masked Warrior is just irredeemably bad, with both low stats like the monkey, however also unable to combo). There is Quest for Balance, but all the problems with it have long since been pointed out.

Overall, it's a problem if you think about it and realize "this faction that has so many things to deal with enemy Morale, only has one or two options that are actually ever usable at this point!"

Even when someone makes a hybrid morale deck with DoD it's not very often that it's a 2 DoD deck, it's far more likely it's 1 DoD for Lingbao's Will, Glorious Warrior and the like. It's a sorry state IMO, and saying "oh well, at least it's SOMEWHAT playable'' isn't something I'm wiling to do. I love this game, but I like morale DoD the most about it, and so far they are the only faction I saw to has been repeatedly hit on ALL their strongest cards (Coyle, Avatar of Lingbao changed, Counting the Days and Pacifying Winds, yet so far that power taken wasn't moved anywhere else, which LM claimed to be the motivation for the nefs, moving power from higher rarity cards to lower ones), let alone the fact that most other factions were given cards that 3 P Morale DoD outdated tools can no longer deal with.

So yeah, that's basically it. I think DoD is rapidly spiraling into losing all the things that made it different from, let's say, Warpath, as their new combat tools are great, compared to their Morale tools, which are outdated and outclassed, as they have lost the catalysts that made them work in the first place. I realize that this is a patty concern in the grand scale of things, but I've faith that LM isn't intentionally aiming for them to go that way at this point. However if things go as they are going at the moment, it seems like that is the way it will end.

tl;dr DoD need new ways to deal with enemy Morale, as it stands, their combat tools are so much better, that making them into something a lot like Warpath seems to be their only way to be relevant at this point (meanwhile WP are getting tools that morale DoD would kill for, but WP find redundant).

Edit: Sorry ,that was written early in the day, while the OP was late at night, so my thought process is fairly fragmented in these posts.

To surmise: DoD has always been a tricky faction to play, due to it being HEAVILY dependent on comboes of cards, it's lack of good draw, the mana curve that's so ridiculously overburdened on 3 and 4. The Morale variety also needed very specific matchups to get going, AKA lots of attackers, little removal and control.
While other factions for more focused tools due to their more tangible strong points, DoD got cards that were again, heavily dependent on other things, thus often overly situational (Chef needs good board presence, Monkey needs Wrath and Will, but suffers if you have Chef, etc) or just flatout weak (Spirit of the Serpent and Masked Warrior). In contrast, they were REALLY strong with the new cards in Opression.

Those cards were nerfed yes, but not because they gave 3 P DoD too much of an edge, but rather they made already too powerful decks even stronger. These nerfs hit the ones they were targeted to yes, and they DID make DoD stronger, but in a way that wasn't good for DoD as they were to be played until now. I mean, I can see it making some decks stronger, but it doesn't inherently fix any issues that DoD had. Hell NONE of the new cards fixed any issues DoD had (still no draw, still overloaded on 4 with few good drops before 3) and STILL the faction that is supposed to be all about defense has both little good ways to make the enemy attack, but ALSO little ways to make an enemy with good durability back off.

So yeah, that is my problem with 3p DoD morale decks in their current state. Considering their faction is so chock full of "defensive" tools with so many high HP cards, they STILL lack overall good tools to do their job.
I do play Brute Force DoD quite a bit and enjoy a small deal of success, but the way I got to playing them wasn't because it was "enjoyable" to play them, it was because all other options simply got too nonviable. And after a year of playing this game and gethering most of DoD cards, I now get to look at my collection and get "whimsical" comments from other players like "Why play 3 DoD with Avatar of Yuanshi?", "Surprise Defense is only good if you've an Ao Shun in hand" and "No one plays 3 P DoD".

Now I am not a game designer, but this isn't exactly a good state of play, for ANYTHING. Of course, some bad cards are needed in every card game, there WILL be ways to make them work somehow eventually.
But at the moment, this faction is pretty much made out of "good", buffing and durable cards (most pump cards, Coyle Immovable, all 2 lives cards, Gao Han command, Avatar of Lingbao) and while almost ALL other cards are considered "bad" within their own faction due to their standalone unreliability or just straight up sub-parness, looking into making the "bad" cards more usable is qeualy as important as is making the "good" cards work whiting your own faction. And it's great that DoD can now be a powerhouse with decent tempo if you set it up correctly, but that doesn't mean DoD is in a good spot as is, just a certain subset of it.

And that is why I made this thread, to say that, which I do often hear other people say in the game, but they don't care for one reason or the other.
2nd reason for this thread is to see if 3P Morale Decks ARE in a bad spot as I claim them to be (I don't consider myself a good player TBH). So yeah, do you have any ideas about that?
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: MerliniX on September 11, 2015, 01:18:18 PM
I haven't said it's unprecedented, but it does feel bad to me. Verore, Sleepers, GI and Exiles have different ways they can be played as 3 Purity. They might not be as optimal as ONE TO RULE THEM ALL, supreme version of 3 P, but they do work more or less consistently (You still see Omnitron or Landstead decks played, as well as Verore who play on their Dragons and Apparitions, etc).

DoD still has multiple ways to play a 3p deck. You can make an Avatar deck, a Dojo Deck, a Morale deck, etc. and like you said, they may not all be equally as good, but they do exist within the game.

Your specific complaint seems to be that you don't have variety when making one specific 3DoD deck archetype - which feels like a really weird thing to say to me. It would be like me complaining that I am roped into specific choices in my 3p CoV Oblivion deck, and that it feels lackluster since the Oblivion nerf, which in all fairness it does.

The mistake is that people look at that a faction does now, and assign it an identity in their minds, this is what the faction does because this is what their decks do, but 3 sets down the road that will not be the case. The factions will evolve and the game will evolve, what is true today will not be true tomorrow. DoD still has access to Morale as a playstyle. Is it as bonkers as before with old Avatar of Lingbao? No. Is it still something that exists within the game that you can play if you so choose? Yes.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Moonblade92 on September 11, 2015, 06:06:47 PM
I think that you almost hit the nail on the head there. The only difference that I'm trying to point out, is that I DO have variety if I want to build a Morale deck with 3 DoD. Just that nearly ALL of seems unplayable within my own faction.

This is a point people often bring up in the game, but never gets discussed other than "Yeah, 3 DoD Morale is weak.". So while I do complain (I will not lie about my bias towards DoD, again), I also want to hear other people if they agree or not, and what can be done (not as in "what should LM change", because that isn't realistic), but if there are any options to change this state of affairs with the cards we DO have available to us at the moment. So far, biggest flaws of Morale DoD I see are, in order of severity:

1) Bad tempo - The reliance on Yuanshi's Wrath and Gao Han (who will force you to start without one of the key Three Sages in command) to keep the board free early is extremely noticeable, and only amplified by the fact  that you lack any removal other than it.

2) Mana curve - As with most DoD decks, you are generally highly overloaded by 4 cost cards (Spirit of Ancient Guardians, Yuanshi's Active[I treat as a card on it's own, just with 1 cost higher than the regular], Glorious Warrior, Heaven's Bell, Great Wall)

3) Chunking Morale - A great deal of DoD morale dmg comes from their Invincible Guardians, who, incidentally, are rather bad at actually doing their job of blocking enemy units due to their low damage.
Other than that, you rely on enemy attacks, meaning the enemy is largely free to just not play anything. The only way I've managed to deal with this flaw for now is using Palanax Commander on offense in order to activate his ability/play Ju-Lin (this however usually means you run him in command).

4) Lack of Endgame - DoD have no good way to finish what they start. Almost all of their "killer comboes" are situational, and they can be removed and blocked to keep them down pretty heavily, especially Avatars of Daode and Yuanshi.

5) Board Control - this could be concidered a part of "tempo" I suppose, but it's important to note that DoD have some extremely useful cards to deal with enemy units. Too bad there are so few of them (Humble, Wrath, Spirit of Ancient Guardians, Disarm + Shifting Stone combo).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Nehkrimah on September 11, 2015, 11:37:24 PM
Just a couple of points here, You mention no hard removal in the 3 dod morale decks, but you can put in some decent, factionless removal. Namely Called shot, and Assassinate. I'll mention Etherial Fusion as it is good hard removal, but it doesn't do morale damage.

Assassinate is actually ok if you don't use it straight at 6 in this sort of deck, as it mainly runs as 7 being the highest cost for the avatar.

Avatar of Lingbao doesn't need to hit the face to do morale damage as well, anything it kills still does a bit of damage.

The Phalanx commander/invincible defenders combo is a little harder now that 0 damage isn't damage, but Kung Jin can help here for some more morale damage.

I almost wouldn't run Yuanshi sage in command, just use yuanshi's wrath instead, most of the time, it's work is done only once a game, to get rid of the low health stragglers. This also helps unpredictability and your unit's health.

Just some of my thoughts here, basically I agree that 3 dod morale isn't great at the moment, but every set they add some more cards for morale dod, and I think it's still ok.

I find the main morale damage for this is actually the damage/turn cards like Glorious Warrior and Inspiring Soldier, who are also much more effective with Lingbao's will. 5 of them out will do around 40 morale with a will, that's a huge chunk.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Moonblade92 on September 12, 2015, 09:54:08 AM

The Phalanx commander/invincible defenders combo is a little harder now that 0 damage isn't damage, but Kung Jin can help here for some more morale damage.


Do elaborate. I assumed Kung Jin actually has no synergy with Palanax Commander...
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Nehkrimah on September 12, 2015, 11:23:46 AM
OK, say you have 10 characters in defense, and they attack with a 10 power character (say one that you infiltrated into attack to make sure they attack). This means that all your characters get 1 damage, so Kung-Ji will proc for 10. There is a downside in that the Phalanx commander will then move to the back, but ideally you'd have a second one behind him, or have a high health character you don't care about behind.

It's a good way of getting multiple characters to take damage at once, instead of having only 1 or 2 as would normally be the case.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: YoutakuGaming on October 06, 2015, 06:09:13 AM
I don't really know how to explain but I can feel where Moonblade is coming from. I play  3 Dod deck since the beginning...up until the nerf and now its just not the same. I know the strategies and tactics such as the phanlex commander, invincible defender one. However that strategy seems to only work on people who don't pay attention. Otherwise the opponent just draws back and finds a quick way to eliminate phanlex

However I DoD kinda unstable now and hard to play competitively when it comes to a triple Dod commander deck.

The nerf did do some justice however DoD isn't what it used to be. It kind of forced me to build another deck. Now I play 2Dod and 1Exile.




Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Hiding on October 16, 2015, 05:23:19 PM
I feel like dod shud get a weak morale sapper maybe 1 for a 1/1 spirit that drains 1 morale a turn that doesnt need to be on the field. Making something that is a bit harder to kill enables dod to have some reliable morale drain that pushes the opponent to finish you.
Either that or add dod cards that act like emblem of aggression to force enemies to attack you. Maybe even riskier make something like:

Misguided Assault
2p dod
5 cost
Ability

Create 3 6/6 human characters with morale cost 2 in target opponent's assault zone.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Rionoskae on October 16, 2015, 05:55:10 PM
Misguided Assault would be an amazing card in a phalanx commander deck...Actually it would probably be wayyy to strong.

Imagine a Lingbao's Will on top of 5 x morale damage from invincible defenders + Phalanx commander....That is like a guaranteed instant win!
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: ecliptix on October 16, 2015, 06:02:53 PM
Better Idea:

Regret
3p DoD
5 Cost
Ability

Create 3 2/2 adorable monkeys in the defense zone.

Flavor: Bojangles! Noooooooo!

Revive the monkey bombs!

In all seriousness though, shifting stone decks are probably the best 3p DoD right now.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Hiding on October 16, 2015, 06:39:18 PM
Misguided Assault would be an amazing card in a phalanx commander deck...Actually it would probably be wayyy to strong.

Imagine a Lingbao's Will on top of 5 x morale damage from invincible defenders + Phalanx commander....That is like a guaranteed instant win!
The thing is tho u would need to set that up and i dont think 0 damage counts as damage anymore. Numbers can also be tweaked maybe only 3 characters or make them stronger. The idea was simply to create attacking characters for the opponent

Something to complement forcing opponents to attack might be maybe a permanent with "if an opponent attacked you this turn, they lose 4 morale" or something. By permantn i mean not a spell.

Tho i feel if they are releasing sirens as a faction in the future baiting people into attacking might be more their thing.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Rionoskae on October 16, 2015, 10:16:05 PM
Don't get me wrong...I love the card concept, but as is I can just tell it's far too strong :)

Say you have a phalanx commander, 2 invincible defenders and a few other misc creatures. If each creature hits once and triggers the defenders ability (x2) You are looking at = 4 * 10 = 40 morale damage. Add another 40 for ling bao's will and in one turn you are dealing 80 morale damage. If you have 3 defenders in play it's an instant GG!

Quote
Regret
3p DoD
5 Cost
Ability

Create 3 2/2 adorable monkeys in the defense zone.

Haha - are you trolling this thread Ecliptix? That might be even worse!

Is shifting stone really that strong now? I thought avatar decks are still the strongest...
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Hiding on October 16, 2015, 11:03:31 PM
Don't get me wrong...I love the card concept, but as is I can just tell it's far too strong :)

Say you have a phalanx commander, 2 invincible defenders and a few other misc creatures. If each creature hits once and triggers the defenders ability (x2) You are looking at = 4 * 10 = 40 morale damage. Add another 40 for ling bao's will and in one turn you are dealing 80 morale damage. If you have 3 defenders in play it's an instant GG!

Quote
Regret
3p DoD
5 Cost
Ability

Create 3 2/2 adorable monkeys in the defense zone.

Haha - are you trolling this thread Ecliptix? That might be even worse!

Is shifting stone really that strong now? I thought avatar decks are still the strongest...

Hmm perhaps as an ability it would be too powerful.
This makes it more predictable and manageable as well as makes it more of a stall game:

Han Mei, the Spider of Xia Han
3 cost
2 purity DoD
12 morale
Unique Character- Human

At the beginning of each combat phase, put a 4/5 human character with morale cost 2 in the opponent's assault zone. That character cannot be moved.

4/9
(R)
"Like a spider, the threads she weaves are invisible to her prey until it is too late."
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: YoutakuGaming on October 20, 2015, 02:38:50 AM
Spider? I think spiders belong to Verore or Exiles. How abbouutt naked mole rat?
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Hiding on October 27, 2015, 01:19:41 PM
Effect is more like a spider tho. And it's simply a description of her if u look she's a human. She basically lures ppl into traps. The 4/5 is supposed to be an unamed enemy soldier who is tricked into atking
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: ToxicShadow on October 27, 2015, 02:35:53 PM
Spider? I think spiders belong to Verore or Exiles. How abbouutt naked mole rat?

Why should spiders belong to verore or exiles (well, if it was a demon spider i guess that would fit)? So far there was no hint for that....and Dod has already snake spirits, so why not also having spider spirits?

Effect is more like a spider tho. And it's simply a description of her if u look she's a human. She basically lures ppl into traps. The 4/5 is supposed to be an unamed enemy soldier who is tricked into atking

Aww, so it is more of a title or nickname...I was somewhat imagining a spider spirit (in that greenish glowing Dod spirit style) and actually liked the idea. Well, reading the character type would have prevented that. :)

Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Hiding on October 27, 2015, 02:46:54 PM
Spider? I think spiders belong to Verore or Exiles. How abbouutt naked mole rat?

Why should spiders belong to verore or exiles (well, if it was a demon spider i guess that would fit)? So far there was no hint for that....and Dod has already snake spirits, so why not also having spider spirits?

Effect is more like a spider tho. And it's simply a description of her if u look she's a human. She basically lures ppl into traps. The 4/5 is supposed to be an unamed enemy soldier who is tricked into atking

Aww, so it is more of a title or nickname...I was somewhat imagining a spider spirit (in that greenish glowing Dod spirit style) and actually liked the idea. Well, reading the character type would have prevented that. :)
I did make a spirit spider in the card design challenge for dod. But people often get nicknames for things.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: ToxicShadow on October 27, 2015, 03:14:41 PM
I did make a spirit spider in the card design challenge for dod. But people often get nicknames for things.

I think i might was mixing this character with the one from the card design challenge. Still, i think the idea of a dod spider spirit is quite nice. :)
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: HellWraith on April 04, 2016, 01:21:39 AM
I think 3P DoD is on the road to greatness, or at least better...ness.

What do you guys think is the best or a good commander lineup?

I've tried:

Daode/yuanshi/lingbao
Daode/yuanshi/kung ji
Daode/yuanshi/xi, who honors the many
Daode/yuanshi/glorious war

thoughts?  I feel like DoD needs a good vigilance 3 drop, besides Gao han whos unique.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Benionin on April 04, 2016, 01:41:04 AM
Try running Gao Han in command, HellWraith
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Hacker on April 04, 2016, 02:44:31 AM
I think as Merlin mentioned you are missing the fact that 3 purity DOD has multiple options now, they are not limited to winning by morale and have an attacking option. If the worry is calamity as it used to be DOJO and calamity yourself is the perfect play

Even post calamity played by the opposition I have lost against them numerous time via then stacking their decks with upto 6 avatars.

Retaliation is a handy defensive option against big fliers that try to avoid your ground defences also.

I think from last set the aim was to move DOD away from being a defense only win condition for them and I believe you will see more cards all be it not 3 purity that will provide them with more attacking options from mid game onwards
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: HellWraith on April 04, 2016, 10:57:28 AM
Try running Gao Han in command, HellWraith

I have, and hes not bad but I feel like theres another ability I should be abusing or a least a morale effect of sorts
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: tmoua805 on April 13, 2016, 07:02:03 AM
I myself am also a 3p dod main and I do agree with what you have to say. 3p dod is heavily heavily and I emphasize heavily reliant on avatar of lingbao as a pressure card when playing a dod morale deck. I often find myself just waiting to draw my glorious warriors/inspiring soldiers because they are the only other reliable morale damaging cards until my avatar gets in but by that time the opponent already has a whole combo or set of buffed up attacking characters waiting to kill me. I feel like once the avatar is taken care of the whole 3p dod deck just falls apart. I mean yes theres still the lingbaos will and yuanshis wrath combo but its reliant on your opponent to have a decent amount of weak characters out on the field. All in all i do strongly agree on dod often having to play the waiting game because dod can't start doing morale damage until you draw your inspiring soldiers, glorious warriors or avatar of lingbao.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Moonblade92 on April 17, 2016, 07:24:18 AM
I think 3P DoD is on the road to greatness, or at least better...ness.

What do you guys think is the best or a good commander lineup?

I've tried:

Daode/yuanshi/lingbao
Daode/yuanshi/kung ji
Daode/yuanshi/xi, who honors the many
Daode/yuanshi/glorious war

thoughts?  I feel like DoD needs a good vigilance 3 drop, besides Gao han whos unique.

Gao Han, Infected Monk for Value prupses as the buffs carry over (I've been tryign out Liand however), and Avatar of Lingbao.

the idea is to play like a Warpath deck more or less, abuse the fact your minions can take a drumming and keep going, switch out injured units into offense. It's a midrange deck tho you lose the mement someone who plays Calamity goe up against you, double so if he can take care of your Dojo.

I think as Merlin mentioned you are missing the fact that 3 purity DOD has multiple options now, they are not limited to winning by morale and have an attacking option. If the worry is calamity as it used to be DOJO and calamity yourself is the perfect play

Even post calamity played by the opposition I have lost against them numerous time via then stacking their decks with upto 6 avatars.

Retaliation is a handy defensive option against big fliers that try to avoid your ground defences also.

I think from last set the aim was to move DOD away from being a defense only win condition for them and I believe you will see more cards all be it not 3 purity that will provide them with more attacking options from mid game onwards

I know what you mean, but Morale was kinda pushed way back over the course of this, and it was an interesting way to win. Not to mention we are now stuck with cards, MANY cards in fact, that serve very little purpose for the faction.

So yeah, I didn't start this thread because I love turtling untill the timer runs out, I started it just because I was, and still am woried that DoD is going to find itself in a very bad place, where almost all it's cards are balanced for defense, but it's something that is no longer viable once you take away the finishers.

Spirit of the Serpent was a step in the right direction, but it's a terrible card for several reasons, and Monkey was a great card, but actually really annoying and hard to deal with.

And I know many factions have their own black sheep, but I dunno, I feel DoD is a lot more constricted in what it can actually play compared to most (if not everyone other than Sleepers).
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: Interesting_Socks on April 17, 2016, 11:37:34 AM
All triple purities are restricted

What can FD do?
What can GI do?

Exiles probably has the most options. But it doesn't really matter. Triple purities don't need to be competitively viable.
Title: Re: A couple thoughts on the current state of Morale 3p DoD decks
Post by: tmoua805 on April 23, 2016, 08:27:19 PM
All triple purities are restricted

What can FD do?
What can GI do?

Exiles probably has the most options. But it doesn't really matter. Triple purities don't need to be competitively viable.

of course 3p is restricted. every combination of purity that makes a deck is restricted one way or another but dod i feel is the most restricted faction of them all. what can 3p GI do? have a 10/10 combined with aleta making it a 13/13 by turn 3, what can dod do to go against that? put a invincible defender down that gets blown up or if you have gao han he also gets blown up; you really have to rely on drawing a humble first hand. and for FD they had klore which gives them consistent damage which you also need a humble to kill plus they have way more charge options than dod's vigilance its ridiculous. DOD doesn't have any consistent morale damage except for avatar but avatar alone cant win you games. glorious warrior is four cost that just ends up getting sniped one way or the other plus you need to be able to draw glorious warrior to actually start doing morale damage. Also when turn 7 comes for avatar, most of the time the board is already full of enemy characters or you health is already at 70-80. honestly dod's best defense cost effective not unique character right now is infected monk.