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Infinity Wars => Cards and Factions => General Game Discussion => Flame Dawn => Topic started by: Inkidu on August 20, 2014, 09:36:36 PM

Title: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Inkidu on August 20, 2014, 09:36:36 PM
Okay so let's take a look at Tithe Collector:

http://infinite-network.com/card/tithe-collector

Okay so some things. First of all this card needs to lose its unique status. The ability is not that good to warrant that, and it's not like he or she is named. So it was obviously some kind of ploy to stop it. However, its unique status and two purity and low health for a relatively high resource cost and moral cost is just really... poor.

So while I don't want to try and overhaul the card from scratch I want to point out a few bullet point changes to actually make this card useful. Not all of these have to be done, but I think one or more would be a good idea, so all these should be treated as an and-or kind of thing.

-Up his health. The card can be killed quite quickly and unlike most flame dawn cards his attack also sucks. This means it is killed quickly, which there are many ways to do it.

-Take away his unique status. At 4 cost it's really not like people will spam all three in one turn. It's not named and it's some weird balancing decision. With all the cards that hit into the support zone it's not like he stay there with impunity.

-Lower the moral cost. He's as easy to hit from command as a wealthy noble and costs just as much but has twice the cost.

-Make his effect work from command. Why have him deployed why not put him in command? I'm not a fan of this one because it'd be pretty cheesy to put three in command zone. This one kind of precludes that it keeps its unique status.

I really think the card needs a change to make it useful and not just a speed bump.


Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Heart on August 20, 2014, 09:49:39 PM
Personally i think he's pretty decent as he is right now. It's extremebly annoying to deal with as the opponent, especially if you dont have any removal. I could see his morale being lowered to like 7 or 8, but design wise he's high risk high reward.
I'm on the fence on his unique status, on the one had, having 3 in hand and playing one after the other would be pretty lame, but unique status makes it less desirable to play in the first place.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Conquest on August 20, 2014, 10:27:57 PM
I'd have to agree with one of your suggestions: The unique status. Considering its high costed (considering its FD), its not like it will be spammed one after another. More likely that one will be played a few turns after another has been, and if you have no way to get rid of a 4 health card, its your fault really that there's that many deployed. If this card was one purity, I could understand the unique type, but being double purity, it really is not needed.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Benionin on August 21, 2014, 12:46:59 AM
The effect may not be good enough to warrant being unique as is, but if someone's running 5 (two in command, 3 in deck, another faction splashed for more control) you could seriously shut down everyone but the Warpath--and even super-ramp could have trouble with a Brings Life by Passing costing 7. So alone, Mr. Tithe may not seem like much but if you let him come out in greater numbers he will quickly show you why exactly he's unique.
And as for the "he's not named, he shouldn't be unique" argument, look at Ritual Master, Mad Monk, or Angel of Virtue.

Puffy, if you want a decklist for how crazy Tithe Collector could be I can whip one up on the Infinite Network in a jiffy if it lets me break the legality.

It does, I'll come back and post a possible abuse list in an edit.

Edit: http://infinite-network.com/deck/builder/12789, and this is just something I threw together in a minute or two. Ramp into a turn 3 Tithe Collector and then use Warpath creatures to finish the hobbled opponent off. Obviously weak to aggro and Verore (no surprise there) but could be seriously powerful.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Symphony on August 21, 2014, 01:05:33 AM
The effect may not be good enough to warrant being unique as is, but if someone's running 5 (two in command, 3 in deck, another faction splashed for more control) you could seriously shut down everyone but the Warpath--and even super-ramp could have trouble with a Brings Life by Passing costing 7. So alone, Mr. Tithe may not seem like much but if you let him come out in greater numbers he will quickly show you why exactly he's unique.

Except, you know, any deck carrying AoEs, target removals (FD Commando says hello) and specially morale decks. If he ramped the cost of all cards, sure. Just characters? He's hardly the threat you make him be with everyone packing so much target/mass removal.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Conquest on August 21, 2014, 08:25:26 AM
The effect may not be good enough to warrant being unique as is, but if someone's running 5 (two in command, 3 in deck, another faction splashed for more control) you could seriously shut down everyone but the Warpath--and even super-ramp could have trouble with a Brings Life by Passing costing 7. So alone, Mr. Tithe may not seem like much but if you let him come out in greater numbers he will quickly show you why exactly he's unique.
And as for the "he's not named, he shouldn't be unique" argument, look at Ritual Master, Mad Monk, or Angel of Virtue.

Puffy, if you want a decklist for how crazy Tithe Collector could be I can whip one up on the Infinite Network in a jiffy if it lets me break the legality.

It does, I'll come back and post a possible abuse list in an edit.

Edit: http://infinite-network.com/deck/builder/12789, and this is just something I threw together in a minute or two. Ramp into a turn 3 Tithe Collector and then use Warpath creatures to finish the hobbled opponent off. Obviously weak to aggro and Verore (no surprise there) but could be seriously powerful.

Well if they wanted to balance it they could just slap the "can not be a commander" text on it. Even with a tithe collectors in command, theyre so easy to kill and have such high morale costs in a faction thats easily moraled. All running a tithe collector heavy deck would do is bring morale decks back into the meta.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Inkidu on August 21, 2014, 03:09:01 PM
I think Tithe Collector is kind of stuck in the pre-Ascension mindset. With many of the cards introduced in Ascension Tithe collector is just kind of lost, and with a few tweaks it could be a very good card as it sits with one (maybe two, but even I doubt that) tweak. Namely lose the unique.

Random stickler note: He's not even named, that's kind of like saying the FD has only one tax collector. :P
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: JSlayerXero on August 21, 2014, 03:42:24 PM
Random stickler note: He's not even named, that's kind of like saying the FD has only one tax collector. :P
And as for the "he's not named, he shouldn't be unique" argument, look at Ritual Master, Mad Monk, or Angel of Virtue.

Because there's only one Angel of Virtue, one Ritual Master and one Mad Monk.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Inkidu on August 23, 2014, 01:49:27 PM
That's why  I said it was a random stickler note. Yeah, it's not important.

Anyway, I think its ability does not warrant it being unique any longer. I think with most factions generally getting faster Tithe Collector could be a good way for FD to actually gain back a little of its speed.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Abyss on August 23, 2014, 10:24:24 PM
The issue with Tithe Collector is that a) he exists in a meta where he's just going to die, and b) FD has no viable game plan except hyper rush.

He'd be fine in a slower, 'big character' focused meta, and if FD gets to play more of a control game. Personally, this is something I want them to work towards, so I don't think he needs to be changed just yet. If LM decide that the current state of the game is basically how it's going to be, then yeah he probably should get changed to have 10 Attack, 1 Health and Charge.
Title: Re: Tithe Collector Some small ideas for changes.
Post by: Xerxes2c00l on August 23, 2014, 11:09:51 PM
Tithe collecter's cost and morale simply do not justify his unique status. Granted that making him non-unque would trouble a lot of warpath decks out there but he cost too much and its not like fd have a strong mid or later game like warpath. I feel to balance the card its purity should be changed to single or make it non-unique. It is below par right now. Making it one purity would open up a bunch of splash possiblities with it and not hamper warpath as much as making it non- unique.

No matter the change tithe collecter will never be a viable card in the current meta with mostly spell based decks out there. Also at cost 4 he comes out too late to do anything against the flying faction. Problem with bufiing or balancing him is that it will only hamper creature based decks even more and thats not something we want right now.